England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

I've just quit after 10 years and will never go back. Secondary is obviously in crisis but primaries are in a state as well. So much so that I'm debating homeschooling my kids. So many children are being failed from the very start of their education. Hardly any TAs, supply all the time as teachers are off with stress, no funding for any support and just hammering English and maths for SATS. Saying they have a broad curriculum when in reality half the class misses all their other lessons because they're out doing English and maths interventions all the time. That's just the start of it - the system is rotten to the core and needs a complete overhaul.

By properly disciplined do you mean hit?

If it does go the way of healthcare professional expect to see your teaching assistants take on more and more responsibility (without commensurate pay increases) and you might even get a 'teaching associate' level which will basically be a teacher with less training who can do some parts of the job, but with less knowledge and you'll probably be responsible for them too.

Perhaps it is about time children were properly disciplined from an early age then. Taught respect for their elders and betters

No one is better than anyone else. No one.

@fluffycloudalert

'Elders and betters' - really?

What makes someone better? Please explain.

We're already there. In primary schools teaching assistants are now regularly teaching whole classes for large parts of the week.

In secondary we have people 'delivering' lessons that have been planned for them by other teachers.

In theory - even knowing what I know about the massive issues with the education sector (from friends leaving the profession) - I’d love to leave my current career and teach English at secondary level. I’m degree educated (first class degree from a top 5 uni for my subject), with 15 years of relevant work experience in an English related field. I also have experience as a CPD facilitator, and have worked with dozens of schools through my last role at a third sector organisation.

I cannot afford to retrain.

Ive looked and looked and looked. Ive manipulated my household budget in about a dozen different ways. I’ve even been through the Teach First application process and was accepted. But when push comes to shove, the training salaries aren’t competitive enough for a professional with an established life and minimum outgoings. I am a single parent which makes it that bit harder, but I think there are probably thousands of people like me, working in the private sector, who feel they have a lot to offer in education but can’t afford to make the move.

I don’t think salaries need to match- nobody expects that- but training salaries need to be high enough that the gap is bridged well enough to make it a viable option.

She's had several interviews but every single job she's applied for - if they bother to respond to her application/give feedback after an interview - has said they're not employing NQTs and they need someone with experience.

It's the same in Scotland. ScotGov is trying to say that we're a bit better off, but they're including supply teachers in the ratio of staff to pupils and many of us supply teachers only work one day a week, if that.

I was in a school last week where two of the Deputes had 4 classes in the assembly hall at the same time - 4 different subjects.

On the same day, they ran a senior assembly - all of S4, 5 and 6 - for a period. Teachers were told to take that as their 'non-contact' and that they'd be used for cover later on in the day.

This

I'd support a return to corporal punishment in a heartbeat.

The open university is mainly for adults.

Online learning gave my then 14 and 15 year old severe anxiety. She still hates Teams now.

Teens need to build social relationships. That’s why online will never work .

My school already have this. TA covering reception class until end of the year with the year group lead teacher doing the planning and assessments (for no extra money of course!)

Daughter's school also has a hlta covering a year 1 class.

Situation is dire.

I stay because I love my job but children starting school less ready to learn and most of my class is behind age related expectations with high level of send (many undiagnosed) and have had 5 new starters since Christmas who speak no English and no teaching assistant to help close the gap.

I teach year 2 and am very good at my job, with over 15 years experience but just can't help these children close the learning gap.

People go to the OU through choice. Children have to attend school (real life or online) whether they want to or not. That makes quite a difference.

If you're in the North East, she would be delighted to!

You'd lose even more teachers if you expected them to hit the kids.

It IS though. £30k starting salary is on a par with the graduate jobs my son applied for after gaining his First in Financial Maths in UK banks and top insurance firms. There are few "starting salaries" even for top professions on more than that. One of son's friends who also got a first in his maths degree is working on minimum wage in a large regional firm of accountants on a graduate scheme.

Now if you were talking about salary progression after experience and passing professional exams etc., yes, the teacher is on a lower trajectory, but if you're talking about starting salary, a teacher does OK!

@BristolBloke Would corporal punishment be for everyone - adults and children alike who broke the rules of society - criminals etc.

Or are you just choosing to brutalise the group with the least ability to hit back?

The pay isn't the problem, it's the job satisfaction.

They need the authority to kick disruptive kids out the class.

Oh well that makes sense. Teaching salaries (which are on national scales with some uplift for London/parts of the SE) go further in the NE so they probably have better retention.

Supports @noblegiraffe's real wage decline argument in fact.

And she can't "get on her bike" due to the housing cost difference, either.

I find this utterly shocking. I can't believe that unqualified, untrained people are allowed to do any teaching in English schools. If the profession has become so devalued then why would any bright kid train in teaching. It should not be easy to qualify as a teacher, the recruitment process needs to be overhauled, pay in line with other graduate jobs, career progression that doesn't involve joining a leadership teamg. Perhaps the funding of teachers pay needs to be centralised as it is elsewhere and taken out of individual school budgets. Given the shitbox of a mess, it beggars belief the the Conservative won the last election.

You must have a TLR then?

I’ve been teaching for 25+ years and am not on £52k just for working somewhere a long time and going up the pay increments.

No TLRs in my primary.

@karriecreamer it's not the starting salary, it's where it goes then. Experienced teachers have had naff all pay rises compared to ECTs.

As Head of Dept in a core subject with over 20 years experience, if I was full time I would top out at 50k. It's not awful but it's not comparable to other careers.

@ThaMiSporsail

My school has said no more ECTs as the programme of support and induction is beyond onerous and ridiculous. Mentors need time out of class each week as do the ECTs and the computer system is horrific. I wonder if this has something to do with it. I hope your dd finds a job soon.