England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Dn’s got a maths degre.

Starting salary was 50K plus car.

Sands democratic school in Devon pays considerably less salary to teachers than state schools (with all staff receiving the same wage) and yet retains dedicated, caring staff (some of whom have come from mainstream state schools) in an environment that treats staff and pupils with mutual respect, small classes and a caring ethos. It's a shame this model hasn't been rolled out on a bigger scale in the state sector. To me it really illustrates that there are teachers who want to teach but the school system at presents seems relentlessly stressful for staff and pupils where nobody wins.

But the issue is not recruitment of teachers, it is retention. I can't think of any other profession that has such a turnover of recently trained teachers.
That implies the issue is not pay, but working conditions.

So you get a load less pay? Because they treat you fairly?

Doesnt sound very fair to me. It’s exploitation.

The govt only managed to recruit 50% of the trainees required for September last year so schools that would currently be hiring those trainees for next September will have unfilled vacancies.

It’s very much a recruitment problem as well as retention at secondary.

Or students are encouraged to go to university for a career, see the starting salary and benefits for teaching, but aren't really committed to actually being a teacher.

It's a choice that they make to keep the education accessible to as many students as possible and something that they're aware of when they sign up and there are other perks such as more flexibility and time off but yes it is rubbish and they deserve better pay but they have chosen to teach there rather than for better pay in a different environment which I think speaks volumes.

Sorry this was in reply to @ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But it’s a drive to the bottom. Treat people well and pay them less.

Why not treat everyone well and pay them what they’re worth?

I thought you said earlier that we don't have a problem recruiting them, but the problem is retention. That suggest the pay in early years isn't a problem.

Independent schools have the ultimate sanction in that they can ask a parent to take their child away. Teachers in state schools have few sanctions available. I used to give up half my lunch hour regularly to get pupils in who’d messed around and/or not done work in class. Many schools have shortened the lunch hour to prevent bad behaviour in the local shops etc.

I agree completely and that's what I meant about rolling out fairer treatment across the mainstream schools and being able to presumably pay them better for it at a state level. Sands wages are low as it's fee paying and the democratic ethos is to keep fees as low as possible to allow families from more walks of life to attend. If fairer treatment and mutual respect were more mainstream then teachers wouldn't be forced to pick between the two.

My point really is that there are teachers who want to teach but not in the current system, I'm in no way suggesting they should be paid less to compensate that, just pointing out that if teachers are willing to take a hit like that then the mainstream system is very flawed.

No, I would never have said we don't have a problem with recruitment because we have an absolutely catastrophic problem with recruitment.

Which suggests pay in the early years is a problem.

I think one thing this thread shows is that there is not one solution to the problem. There is no magic wand that can make this better for the sake of our children's education.

Pay - yes the starting salary is decent. But the hours worked in those first few years are massive completing not only a difficult job with little experience and few resources, but completing the course expectations outside of work hours on the ECT side. Then there's the issue around wage stagnation. After 6 years your pay is capped and hoops have to be jumped through to get UPS pay, which only goes up every two years for a further 3 times. After that (so 12 years after starting) there's no movement unless you take on more leadership, which for some people (predominantly women with caring responsibilities or those who live rurally) is not always feasible. It also means we are taking our most experienced teachers out of the classroom to take on management duties. Meanwhile, many sectors of those who we went to uni with continue to rise year upon year and we watch as they get bonuses etc. At 33 my wage is the highest it can ever be (and I'm a middle manager). I have got probably another 35 years of work ahead of me potentially with no significant wage increase and potentially going down in real terms as it continues to fail to meet inflation.

Conditions - the hours are a slog and the pressure is ridiculous. Most teachers want to do what's right for their students and love teaching and children (I am aware there are some crappy teachers out there, but we can agree they are a minority and not the ones trying to improve the systems). But with an increase in abusive parents, behaviour issues, SEND children, paperwork and expectations as well as being expected to overcome this to meet progress 8 trajectories has resulted in an atmosphere where children can't keep up with the workload and teachers are too burdened by it to enjoy the job.

What actually needs to happen is a mixture of everything.

• have no top band of payment so that experienced teachers who want to be in the classroom can be there and continue to grow. Our children will benefit from their knowledge and expertise and our younger teachers can learn from them.
• more teachers to make class sizes smaller. Small class sizes will mean fewer books, fewer behaviour issues, fewer SEND in one place (and all the paperwork that comes with it) will mean the teacher can focus more attention on each child.
• progress 8 needs to go. I agree there needs to be something in place to make sure schools are getting the best out of their children, but so many primary schools stop teaching anything beside SATs subjects for year 6 and have a TA to support with intervention to boost grades, so they are getting that input for those 3 exams every single day. The knowledge expected is lower than at GCSE but to an extent that a lot of parents will be able to support at home and tuition for 2 subjects (if necessary) is expensive but do-able for more fortunate underattaining students. Then they get to GCSE. The hormones have kicked in, they are doing 9 subjects, sometimes more, only have 2 hours per week in that subject rather than half a day every single day. Many subjects will be above and beyond with what a parent can help out with and tuition for all those subjects far less realistic.
• more SEND support. Realistic support. Not just the senco telling me I need to do something that I might not manage to do from juggling everything else going on in my room. We need a massive reflection on SEND provision in this country and trying to embarrass teachers with slogans like 'quality first teaching' by insinuating that a child not making the progress they should be is because of their teaching rather than the government's failure to properly fund send provision, provide proper training and ensure teachers have got enough time to properly invest in their child.

@RainbowColouredRainbows

There used to be something called an Advanced Skills teacher. They could be paid more to stay in the classroom.

But no one ever got it, because it was too expensive. And then they just disappeared.

Yup! As a teacher you're crushed from all sides...trying to get blood from a stone in some lessons as students not interested and can't listen...deep marking for 15 classes and homework every week...ridiculous amount of data input...pressure from above and endless school meetings...parents thinking we have the time to do this and this within a lesson...the list goes on. Like you, I'm glad I'm near the end of the journey! X

Young teachers entering the profession aren't going to be encouraged by a good pension (which is deteriorating by the year) because they're unlikely to still be in teaching by then.

Absolutely-it is not a ‘job for life’ any more-huge numbers don’t even last 5 years.

Knowing that you have to do this job day in day out till you are 68 (71?!) then you’ll have this ‘gold plated’ pension doesn’t help when you are imagining wrapping your car around a tree so you don’t have to go in the next day and don’t see how you’ll even make it to the weekend.

And yet I know two teachers at least who are both experienced teachers, both were Heads of Department, and can't get a job for love nor money. One is maths, the other is modern languages.

Is it because they want to be paid to scale and schools can’t afford it?

Personally I'd love to become a teacher, but I don't have the right qualifications and it's not a gain them on the job situation as it is for fully qualified teachers who want to gain additional qualifications. There isn't any help financially for re-training as a teacher either that I can find.

I was a maths teacher for 32 years. I loved the first 25 of those years but behaviour has now become so bad that the enjoyment has gone. School management in my experience have become so unsupportive of those who want to teach instead of controlling behaviour but whilst still setting teachers unrealistic targets. Parents now blame the teachers when their darlings aren't achieving. I would love to still teach like I used to be able to do, but the current ethos won't let me. I now successfully home-tutor all aspects of 11-plus and secondary maths in and around Bexley, Kent and am very happy doing so.

What qualifications do you need?

Although I've spent time tutoring post grad teaching in a school is not a job I'd do these days. Agree with everything OP and others have said.

The wrapping your car around a tree thing is something I hear day in and day out (and have been known to say/think myself).