Is the school curriculum still full of useless bollocks?

[Feelingcrappy2]

Hoping that things have changed since I was at school. I hated school. Perhaps because it was an all girls school so was incredibly bitchy and full of hormonal girls. I have friends who went to mixed schools and they were never as boy obsessed as me because they were just so used to them always being in their day-to-day lives. I truly believe that alone let me down. I started college and was a bit like...oh...BOYS!

Any way, back to the curriculum - my eldest will be starting soon and I'm wondering what to expect. Not so much what to expect in primary school but senior school.

I can imagine that many people will have other opinions on what I am about to point out here - but this is just how I feel.

Algebra, King Henry VIII's wives names, going to box hill in the freezing arse cold freezing our tits off to measure some grass (literally)... I mean, I have an ENDLESS LIST OF SHIT that I had to endure throughout my time at school. I would go as far as saying that the vast majority of what I 'learnt' was bollocks and I have never, ever used/needed to remember it.

Basic maths - absolutely. (In fact, wish they would have focused on basic math more than all those impossible mathematical equations etc, as basic math is what we use day to day, right?)

Basic science - absolutely.

English Lit & Lang - absolutely.

The rest of the subjects - yes to a certain extent, but in my honest opinion should be minimised. I could have really benefitted from things such as:

• Career choices (and I don't mean the one-time hour career choices class we sat through in year 11 when we were about to leave, absolutely clueless as of what to do next - I mean, in depth informative career options - delving into the potential job opportunities out there, along with information on different industries. Starting from say, Year 9/10.
• Classes on wellbeing (not just mental health, but the importance of self care, how to deal with big feelings, certain and specific situations, educating kids on social media - in fact, social media should be heavily taught about considering the amount of time kids spend on it).
• Credit ratings (my DP screwed himself over for 6 years due to an unpaid parking fine aged 18) and things like budgeting and the value of money. I remember blowing each and every payslip when I started working - do you know why? I NEVER knew I could buy a house. Not from a wealthy family and assumed it was only for the mega rich - we were never taught in school about these sorts of possibilities.
• Similarly to the above - debts and importance of credit & credit cards

Again, I could go on and on and on. Like I said, I really don't feel as though I got much out of my time at school. I started to learn once I got my first full time job aged 17. I was thrown into an adult only environment. It was client facing and I had no choice but to grow up, learn on the job and become a woman. I loved it and thank goodness - because even college taught me zilch.

I just hope things have changed - or will do in the future at least. I hope kids are still not sat learning about how to draw a circle with a compass and leaving clueless, lost, spending every penny they get, depressed over social media and not knowing what is actually out there for them to achieve.

As much as parents should be helping to teach their kids my above list, schools should too, in my opinion.

Pythagoras and Oxbow lakes age 12

And age 50 something I use this knowledge in my work frequently.

Presumably somewhere out there is a biologist developing protective or something, inspired by dissecting a frog; or someone who negotiates for the UN who requires a knowledge of Spanish grammar, or someone who is as passionate about history as my teenage DS and understands how this impacts on modern politics.

Nothing is relevant to everyone, but nothing is irrelevant to everyone.

Absolutely 100% this

We have never talked about well being more and young people mental health has never been worse.

Well-being sessions don't work.

Studying something in depth and becoming good at it and discovering an interest and passion for a subject is better for wellbeing than any crappy wellbeing session can ever be.

Yes but at what age?

Dc need to be exposed to it all before they will know if they have an interest and aptitude. Some dc develop a little later

What age would make sense?

In the UK we start dropping subjects around 14 then completely narrow by 16. Some would say that's too young

Ah, reduce everything to the lowest common denominator for the masses.

That'll help them progress and up social mobility....ah hang on.

Isn't this idea just a poor secondary modern education for all kids apart from private schooled ones? Way to go to limit kids life changes then.

PS I use oxbow lakes a lot. And Pythagoras, and maths equations all sorts of "obscure" things!

I went to school in the 70s and 80s.

my eldest is about to finish primary school, second is middle primary, and they have to learn a whole more useless shit.

The grammar they have to learn is ridiculous. Stuff you will never, ever need to know. There was too little grammar when I was at school, but this is a massive over correction.

It does not bode well for what secondary school will be like.

It’s widely acknowledged that the UK school system is now overly and narrowly academic and that it is failing kids whose skill set is not in this area.

Actually learning the English grammar at primary is massively helpful at secondary for learning foreign languages. So it is stuff they need to know, even though it isn't immediately obvious how that knowledge will be used. They won't continue to learn further English grammar in English at secondary though, so if that's your concern you don't need to worry. But it's a huge help in French, Spanish etc.

Someone with a good grounding in primary school maths should be able to pass the GCSE foundation paper.
I agree there should be some other options for those who really can't get maths but I actually think this is more of an issue with English. There is no foundation English paper so everyone has to do the same one.
Many countries carry on with maths past GCSE so I really don't think it is pointless.
I am in a job that uses relatively high level maths every day. It would have been such a shame if I had not had the opportunity to learn that.

For posters going on about how they want their kids school full of art and music and so on, you do get that the narrowing of the curriculum has squeezed these out in many schools? That is one of the key complaints of the system.

When I was at school (80s for secondary) we all did music and a whole range of crafts/arts/ technology, even in my rather rubbish, low achievement, working class comp. There was something for academic kids and non acacdemic kids to find their niche and passion.

Now the shift is to the a academic at the exclusion of all else

Those on here saying their kids loved it doubtless have academic kids. I’m academic and I’d have loved it. It’s no wonder the winners in the current system praise it. But school is for everyone, and needs to meet the needs of all kids skill sets and help them all to find what they live. That’s what I heard a Finnish teacher say the purpose of school is ‘ to find what you love’. How different would our schools be if they were based on that!

They waste far too much time on dubious "wellbeing" material to make up for inadequate parenting and don't have time to cover enough challenging academic material for the bright kids. Why would you want to dumb down your child's education? Don't you want them to have a chance of a successful career?

This is a really sad attitude to have and I feel so sorry for the children of parents with these attitudes.
I can see a big difference in the people (and their parents) who valued education growing up and those who thought it was stupid and they would never need it.
I'm fed up of children telling me that they don't need to go to school to learn maths because they're going to be a video game designer when they grow up so they won't need it whilst their parents say nothing. Guess who's definitely not going to be a video game designer?
Was just speaking to a friend of mine about this thread and she very frustratedly explained that they do teach things like budgeting and credit scores. Although at the moment a lot of her time seems to be taken up by trying to teach 12 year olds how to tell the time....
Also what is the point of spending a huge amount of time on career choices when you are then not teaching them what they need to get into those careers?

I really disagree. I got A in GCSE maths 25 years ago and I look at my daughter's foundation maths work and it's mostly completely theoretical stuff, very little that actually be useful in life, and also definitely not easy, it's really tricky stuff that I struggle to understand.

Everyone learns compound interest at school - it's part of basic maths. Usually around year 7/8.

What you're describing is basically a secondary modern school - when they created grammar schools, the kids who failed the 11 plus were sent to a secondary modern with the idea they weren't bright, would never add up to much and only needed a smattering of education to get them through their dull futures in factory or shop work etc.

You obviously don't have much of an appetite for education but thank goodness we don't write kids off like that any more.

There's no such thing as useless knowledge.

I've never got in credit card debt without needing a lesson about it.

Yeah let's just focus on the bright kids without a second thought for the ones struggling.

Not RTFT but from the OP's posts, this half term's work teaching Blues to Y8 is obviously pointless in her opinion.

Except IMHO it isn't. They have learned about chords and bass lines. They have learned about the roots of jazz. They have listened to lots of different examples. They have looked at the structure of blues lyrics and written their own on a subject of their choice. Now they are working in groups (a skill in itself) to put a blues song together. They have to learn those "soft" skills like listening, managing resources and time, ensuring everyone has a role, practising effectively before performing it to the class. Yesterday I asked if they were enjoying it (2 separate classes) and everyone was enthusiastic saying yes.

The curriculum since Gove got his Victorian mitts on it is appalling. But that's not our fault. Nor is it our fault that we try to get all students the best possible grade in external exams because thanks again to the government, that's how schools are measured against one another. Instead of being goady on here, why not email our "f*cking great" Secretary of State, the "wonderful" Gillian Keegan? She's so great that 2 terms after RAAC was found in several parts of my school, we have had ONE mobile classroom delivered. 2 specialist classrooms will arrive, one in September, a whole YEAR after RAAC was found, the other literally the week yrs 11 & 13 go on study leave. 40 students in their exam years will have had no access to the specialist equipment only available in there.

I think in cases like your DD, functional maths should be an option.
I believe that good teaching in primary (and also Year 7 and 8) will unlock foundation maths for most kids but not everyone is getting that.
I still think English is a bigger issue with no foundation option at all.

What’s wrong with any of that? Loads of countries round the world teach to those sorts of levels in subjects at those ages.

Students who struggle with maths often find functional skills maths harder.

Foundation level maths is split into 4 areas:

Number
Algebra
Geometry
Data handling

Number is primarily adding subtracting multiplying and dividing including fractions. This is useful for everyone.

Algebra is about finding missing numbers in a maths sentence. This isn't particularly useful on it's own but it really helps students work maths both forwards and backwards when they come to it in the next section

Geometry is about finding areas and perimeters and volume. This is incredibly useful to nearly all tradespeople, anyone doing DIY, builders and engineers. The algebra also helps - so for example if you are trying to work out how many cans of paint to paint a room you can work forwards but if you have 2 cans of paint left by the previous owner you can work backwards to see if it will cover the room.

Data handling is included in foundation maths to help with media literacy. It's common to see graphs and tables in the newspapers or in medical leaflets etc and people living in this country need to be able to understand basic information presented in graphical form.

@lollipoprainbow The struggling kids are more likely to be helped by extra maths and English than by lessons on mindfulness.

• Career choices (and I don't mean the one-time hour career choices class we sat through in year 11 when we were about to leave, absolutely clueless as of what to do next - I mean, in depth informative career options - delving into the potential job opportunities out there, along with information on different industries. Starting from say, Year 9/10.

Career guidance is statutory for year 7-13.......and should really start in primary school.

Most schools do this surely? Our bog standard comp has people in all the time talking about different industries and also days out to try college and look at apprenticeships.
It's hard when kids don't know what they want to do - I really had no idea until after I left school, which is why I appreciated a broad education as it gave me a start in a few different areas.

Most schools do this surely? Our bog standard comp has people in all the time talking about different industries and also days out to try college and look at apprenticeships.

They absolutely should. Career Guidance is a statutory requirement from year 7 and schools will follow something called the Gatsby Benchmarks.

It's hard when kids don't know what they want to do - I really had no idea until after I left school, which is why I appreciated a broad education as it gave me a start in a few different areas.

Career guidance isn't just about choosing a job. It's about developing a wide range of skills that will help your career development long term. So yeah, a broad education and set of experiences is really beneficial.

But you can't find out what you love unless you try it and part of that process involves finding out what you don't love too.

As a degree educated person with an A in maths GCSE, I still say the maths covered in foundation GCSE is FAR from simple and achievable by most students. It is bloody complicated and hard, and much of it irrelevent.