Should or will Labour abolish Grammar Schools?

[redexrt123]

So Labour have already confirmed that they will add VAT to private school fees as one of their key tax policies. Firstly they hope to raise revenue to fund improvements in state schools. Secondly, many in Labour are ideologically opposed to private schools as they believe they create two tier educational system that fosters social inequality, as most parents simply do not have the option to send their kids private. One of the problems with the new policy from a tax revenue perspective, is that some, perhaps many, parents who can just about afford current fees may decide to send their kids to State school. This could be just for primary or sixth form or could be for their full education. In any event the new policy is likely to increase the demand for state schooling. In particular as head teachers of grammar schools have already indicated, it is likely to increase the demand for entry into grammar schools. As grammar schools have a selective intake, they tend to have the best exam results in the state sector (although not nessarily the best Attainment 8 scores) making them an attractive alternative to private education for many. Labour have not stated that they will abolish Grammar schools (by which I mean abolish selective academic entry) but they have been and still are opposed to the creation of new Grammar schools. Indeed many of the reasons why the Left are opposed to Private schools apply equally to Grammar schools. They create a two -tier educational system. Grammars have less poorer students (i.e. Kids on free school meals) than your typical comprehensive. Richer parents can game entry for their children as they can more readily afford private tuition for entrance exams.

So do you think Labour should turn Grammar schools into comprehensives? More importantly, do you think they will do so in the next parliament?

Historically, Labour don’t seem to have a problem with grammar or private schools for their own DC though. Another case of do what I say, not what I do?

Labour doesn't like success. They want to keep everyone down at the bottom, rather than climb the ladder of success

They aren't getting rid of private schools, only adding VAT.

I remember being at a lovely grammar in the 90s and the constant worry about Labour closing then. I have no doubt that they will. They like to level everyone down. They’ll start with private schools then grammar.

So are you saying if kids don't attend Grammar school ,s they won't be successful ?
You are aware that Grammar schools haven't existed for most of the UK since the 1970,s ?

No I don't think they will abolish Grammar Schools.

@LakeTiticaca I am glad you have achieved a level of success that means you can post on Mumsnet at 2pm on a weekday. No doubt you pulled yourself up by the bootstraps from nothing.

They won’t, but they should either expand or disband because at the moment they’re just another instrument of pushy privilege which is so far removed from the original ethos of improving social mobility. They’re now mainly middle class enclaves which do not represent the full social spectrum and are therefore unjustifiable.

If grammar schools are still run on the basis of academic ability, there is no guarantee that ex-private school pupils will automatically gain a place.

This exactly. Years ago I spoke to our Labour candidate about her thoughts re our local Grammar system. She was definitely against the selective system. Where did her daughters go? The Girl's Grammar.

The one and only time I voted Conservative.

An interesting article.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/general-election-candidate-selection

"Before a general election, political parties must select a candidate to stand in every seat they plan to contest."

It must be assumed that your Labour candidate wasn't totally averse to a selective system.

Well observed.

They haven't said they'll abolish grammar schools. They've said they have no plans to.

You do know that very many independents are academically selective?

Yes, I do.

https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/choosing-a-school/independent-schools/uk-independent-schools-explained

Are private schools selective?Some more than others. For a handful of junior schools (mainly in or close to London) the only way to be sure of gaining a place is to put your child’s name down early, although thankfully most schools no longer insist on parents getting their children's name down at birth. The majority in the primary phase take things are a bit more relaxed, with many more rural prep and senior schools happy to take on pupils who can pay the fees.

Labour will not get rid of grammar schools.
Stand easy.

Many aren’t as well. We are in a grammar area around here and the local private school is generally mostly pupils who didn’t pass the 11+.

A very small number of children attend private schools. An even smaller number will leave after VAT is (quite rightly) introduced.
There are plenty of spaces in state schools for those children that will leave.

Labour will not get rid of grammars but I think they should.

All these constant posts on VAT at private schools aren’t going to achieve anything. There is obviously some kind of online campaign by private school parents going on here on MN but I’m not sure what you hope to achieve. Labour won’t change their minds and they are going to win the election.

You and me both then since you replied at 14.07 👏👏👏

Right. But I don't believe in the mythical 'ladder' of success you say Labour doesn't want anyone to climb. Most successful people in this country are born halfway there already.

Margaret Thatcher closed more grammar schools when Ed Sec than anyone else.

Maybe had the grammar school not attracted a cohort of high achievers and highly tutored there would have been a critical mass of students focussing on doing well at the comprehensive.

My Dc also “wanted to study, work hard, have the best teaching” and got that at a true comprehensive which did well by kids of all abilities

No they don't.

Labour won’t change their minds and they are going to win the election

I think that they will change their minds or at least shelve it for a while - its only a sop to the hard left in any case. They might win the election but not by a huge majority. They are going to blow it.