Ireland

[DaoineSidhe]

Feeling good about my country and my place in the world.

I don't see much to be proud about given two badly run referendum campaigns that would likely have passed if govt has listened to the recommendations of the citizen assembly.

Well yes that’s the point - the government didn’t listen and the people fought back. It was good to really see democracy in action.

Thats the shortest opening post ive ever seen.

What are you feeling good about exactly?

Enjoy it while you can op, because it won't be long before others come along and tell you how parochial, backwards and just plain awful ireland is.

Are you saying that people are not allowed to say their opinions?

We have free speech.

It would be very strange and weird territory if no one is ever allowed to criticise ireland.

Isn't it North Korea where people are not allowed to criticise their country?

Another poster above me said that wrote that she doesn't see much to be proud about.

Are you saying that her opinion is not valid?

I don't see how a referendum not passing because the wording had people confused, is anything to be proud about.

It just makes the government look shambolic and unorganised.

I remember looking at the information on the voting card when it was sent out in the post.

And I thought "the way they have worded this makes no sense whatsoever. No one will be able to even understand what they are costing for"

It was a shambles in action.

No one could understand the wording

I am too OP! Happy that my work as a single mother for my family continues to be recognised in our constitution. And my single parent elderly and infirm mother who I also care for is similarly happy.
Democracy in action is right!!

I could understand the wording just fine thank you. I didn't agree with it and voted accordingly

How exactly are single mothers supported in ireland?

That's you.

I've talked to a lot of people in ireland, and they said the wording was extremely confusing.

If you go on boards.ie , the irish forum, there is a huge thread about the referendum, and there are hundreds of people on the thread saying that the wording of the referendum was extremely unclear.

People said they the government didn't properly explain what "durable relationships" meant.

Ah try again.
I said recognised not supported for a start. And it was a dig at the Yes sides assertion that my family, as a single parent family, is not recognised at present.
By the way, single parents are supported in this country via additional tax credits, the Working Family Payment (if eligible) and Children's allowance. Its not perfect of course, but it is support.

Disclaimer: I didn't vote because I am not (yet) a citizen. But I have lived here for over 20 years.

I think its a bit of joke having a constitution that is meant to allow women to stay home with the housing situation the way it is. Our rent currently is one persons (good) salary, no way I could stay home and look after the house and darn my husbands socks.

If people want the protection of a legally recognised relationship, there are options available to them. There was no need for our constitution to be changed to include "durable relationships" in the first place.

Exactly!. I was just about to say that.

The constitution as it is, doesn't make sense anyway.

It says

"women won't be made to work, to the neglect of their duties at home".

Every woman that i know in ireland, has to work.
For financial reasons. So women do have to work! Not many people can afford to live off one salary.

The irish constitution currently says

"the State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home”.

And that was written around 100 years ago.

Not relevant today. As both men and women have to work for financial reasons.

Also the wording should be gender neutral
It should be "if one parent wants to stay at home to take care of the children, that will be supported"

I'm not surprised it didn't pass.

In my opinion

A. It was badly worded.
B. Ireland is traditional and anything that looks like it is attacking marriage, I don't think will pass.
Even if it is to update outdated gender language

Don't say I didn't warn you op.

I don't agree it should be gender neutral. Life isn't gender neutral. They could have added fathers to it if they wanted to make it equal to reflect modern society but they didn't. And were told to resoundingly fuck off by the vast majority of voters. Which I'm delighted about!!

Grow up deadringer. People are allowed to agree and disagree on mumsnet.

As you well know. Are you going to say the same thing for a third time?

But what if fathers want to do childcare and mothers want to go out to work?

Why does our constitution just say.

I also dont like how the above paragraph says that "women have duties in the home".

And it doesn't say that men have any duties in the home.

I think a lot of the wording of things are gender balanced these days.

What I am saying is that under-informed people should keep schtum for preference, and if it’s plain they don’t understand the issues, or in fact understand (as in several recent posts) that there is no such country as ‘Southern Ireland’, they should not be surprised if their ass is handed to them.

Not suggesting this is the case with the OP, but there’s a lot of it about.

Yes, I agree it was a spectacularly poorly thought out referendum.

Do you know any men that have been prevented from staying at home due to our constitution??

It's disingenuous at best to not recognise that the vast majority of caring work is done by women.

Yes i agree, The vast majority of caring work is done by women.

Maybe if the constitution was changed - so it didn't talk about womens duties in the home.

It might filter down through the masses that housework/childcare is not just womens duties, that it is both genders duty to do housework/childcare.

It might have made a change