Always on the outside of a group

[Moodul]

Does anyone else have this, where they always seem to be on the peripheries of a group? I do have friends but only a few who I see 1:1 - in a group setting I don't seem to be able to project myself and end up hanging round the edges. This is the case at work and at the school gates with the other parents - people aren't unfriendly to me or anything, I just don't tend to get included in stuff. I am quite introverted but I don't think I'm unfriendly, always make the effort to say hello and chat.

It has been like this my whole life, was exactly the same at school and uni. I've noticed my 7 year old son, who is very similar to me in personality, has the same - no one dislikes him or is horrible to him particularly but he just doesn't seem to get noticed in a group setting, being a quiet and compliant child he doesn't stand out next to the more outgoing kids. I always felt quite lonely at school for that reason and I don't want him to feel that way. We do all sorts of clubs and things with him and it is always the same in any kind of group setting.

It's not like I want to be the centre of attention or anything but it would be nice to feel like I was part of the group sometimes.

Does anyone else have this?

Yes it always been like that, and I can’t see it ever changing now.
It can be disheartening.

I have always felt very much like this, even with my 2 sisters. However, the one place I don't feel like this is in my Book Club. I set it up together with a friend, who was then an acquaintance, about 7 years ago & we meet every month. We have had various people come & go, but there are a core few who are still there & we get on so well. We don't do much outside of the meetings, but just knowing I have that 1 thing per month makes so much difference & gives me confidence. Can you also find or set up a group for something you are very interested in?

What do you mean by ‘projecting’ yourself?

The same but I think it's due to my personality. I'm guarded and prefer my own company, I don't ask people to do things with me and since becoming a parent feel tired a lot. I have little time for myself. I used to be the opposite, meeting friends all the time, only on the periphery if I wasn't dancing to their tune. Looking back I never had any "good friends" so never chased for more. Every friend I ever had used me or spoke ill of me behind my back. Sounds sad but DH is my close friend, we share all our ideas and spend our spare time as a family or going for walks together. I do understand the feeling but I'm very much at peace with it now.

Have you ever considered that you could be neurodiverse? Obviously not saying you are but it might possibly be something worth looking into.

As for your son, you may find that as they mature, his quiet nature will stand him in good stead. My 10 year old is similar & at age 7 had friends but wasn't popular really. Now, because he is nice to everybody & doesn't get involved in silly playground spats (he literally walks away), they all like & respect him & he has been invited to the (small) birthday party of every boy in his class - the only boy that this applies to! Your son sounds great, he will find his place 😊

I am, I have ADHD. Diagnosed a few years ago.

Ah, you’ve probably covered that base then.

I just mean - you know how some people are good in a group setting, they get listened to, they make themselves heard? I've never been able to do that.

I hope so. He just seems to get forgotten about at the moment! Even the teachers don't seem to take a huge amount of notice of him because he's quiet, well behaved and clever.

I used to feel like this but then I realised I actually quite like being on the periphery rather than the centre of attention. Some people are quite loud but I love what they're saying and it keeps me entertained. I keep strong my 121 friendships and in group situations I never feel left out anymore as I just join in where it's natural. Big chatty groups that all know each other can feel a bit daunting - just fake it till you make it!

Just keep on in there and find your comfy spot. Try not to self critisize - there are probably other people feeling exactly the same - it's not helpful.
You are being invited so you are clearly special to people!

I'm not invited to anything really! I'm never invited to school mum meet ups for instance.

Maybe talk to the teacher then & see if there are any nurture groups he can join? But honestly, you could be describing my DS at that age.

Always. But that’s exactly where I want to be so it doesn’t bother me. It did when I was young, I was tormented by it in fact. Then I realised it’s absolutely fine to be who I am, and who I am is not someone who functions well in the midst of social groups. My children have made their own way, my son is very outgoing and popular while my daughter is much more like me. It has not hindered them.

You said you have a few 121 friends though so why not invite to yours for a catch-up? Build your own group as it were. You only need to get to know 1 school mum to arrange play date and mum chat. You may not be part of the big gang that meets at the school dates but I bet there are other parents there in exactly the same position as you.

I hated all that primary school gates stuff. So glad my boy is at secondary now - there's none of that awkwardness!
Having said that - by year 4 or 5 at primary I had got chatty with one or two mums. I'd turned up in my trail shoes one day and was late cause lost track of time - all red and huffing and puffing - another mum asked if I'd been running - I gasped 'trying too but feel like shit now' - and it just sparked a laugh and a chat and we still chat now 8 years later.

What do you do to be heard that you feel doesn’t work currently?

I suppose I’m asking how you behave in these group situations. Do you behave like someone who expects to be peripheral, who doesn’t invite or want attention? Or are you making genuine bids for attention that aren’t working?

There are people I see in social situations that don’t appear to centre themselves in the sense of clearly being the main character in their own stories, finding themselves interesting and important etc — they act as if they’ve been scripted to be a secondary character in a screenplay who’s only there as filler, to ask the main character questions so the audience gets information. I don’t mean that cruelly. In some cases, I think it’s because they’ve absorbed the idea that people will like them if they concentrate on the other person, that it’s ’good manners’ to be the one reacting and saying ‘Ooh, really?’ and ‘What did you do then?’

That’s how my mother brought all her daughters up, and it was a script we had to unlearn. Because the truth is, as I’ve observed it, that the result is that if you behave as though other people are more important and interesting than you, unsurprisingly, they will take you at your word, because they don’t get to know anything about you, and you’re being ‘Nothing to see here’.

What makes you interesting, OP? What do you bring to the table? Focus on that.

I’m 42 and I’ve always had this…. In recent years I’ve realised it’s a blessing not a curse ( I always thought it was a curse) I’m not involved in the intense dramas and fallouts and can fly under the radar at work.

Also I find my friends tend to trust me as I’m not a drama llama and I don’t have friends pushing into my down time all the time as well

There are many benefits but it took me until I was in my 40s to realise it was good not bad

exactly that @PivotPivotmakingmargaritas

Often the school gate group types thrive on gossip but this can be the undoing of people in the end, and the groups often fizzle out. I too have a trusted core of friends, we are really strong and it's all I need. I'm well into my 40's now and it's amazing how many people have undone their friendships due to gossip and drama.

I am a naturally outgoing person and can easily make idle chit chat with other mums at the school gate or strangers at a bus stop etc (just to clarify, i read the room and know when people want to be left alone). I think some people don't like small talk but it really is the foundation for building friendships. People I find hard to engage with are people who don't ask any questions in the natural back and forth of conversation.

The thing is no one seems to really give me the chance to talk - I make a concerted effort to catch the eye of other mums and make small talk but they usually don't really engage beyond basic politeness and then turn around and start talking to other people. I'm sure it must be something I'm doing but I really don't know what - small talk doesn't come easily to me for sure but I do make a real effort to engage and be approachable.

I guess the reason I'm fussed about this is because I'm worried it is partly the reason DS himself is not included.

It’s possible it is. Which is not to guilt you, OP, but I think children do often absorb friendship scripts from their parents. (As I say, I was brought up with some very weird, counter-productive ones, and had to consciously unpick them as a young adult.)

What would you like your friendship world to look like, ideally?

Yes. I'm.in my fifties now and fully embrace and accept it. It's much easier than trying to fit in.

To be clear, I do have friends, I have a few very good friends who I've had for years and love dearly and see often.

It's being left out in the context the group settings I struggle with. And I honestly don't see what else I can do as I genuinely do make an effort with people - I'm friendly, I volunteer for stuff etc, have kids round for playdates.

My son (who is autistic) has described never being able to find a gap in a group conversation, so never being able to say anything in group settings. By the time he's spotted the gap and got ready to say something, someone else has always stepped in.

My other child struggles socially in groups and I've always put it down to a similar kind of thing, but perhaps more subtle. To her it feels like she is being excluded by the group. But I wonder if the difference is one of perception - one seeing it as all on him, the other as the way she is being treated.

I think it's fine to get more out of one to one interactions than groups. One solution is to work on "projecting yourself" in groups, but another is to lean into those one to one conversations and find hobbies that are structured towards those. Eg golf perhaps or a board games club, or v small groups like book club which was suggested upthread. Or just enjoying the lovely friendship you already have.