Places that encourage cash increasing

[ItsAllAboutTheDosh]

I am finding more restaurants, bars and shops are encouraging cash payments due to the card payment costs. These are always independent places with the owner on site actively involved.
Just wondering if others are finding the same?
Although if you never or rarely go to small independent places that would be helpful to state. I find chains prefer card payments.

These weren't money laundering type places that I visited, they were places like cafes at visitor centres

Where I live the only places that's are cash only are "barbers" and "nail places".

Everything else is card preferred. More and more are card only. Genuinely wouldn't occur to me to carry cash. I keep some coins in a drawer in case the kids need £1 for school and that's it

It might be regional, there isn't cash preferred places where I live in Northamptonshire but I have seen them when we go on holiday in small towns and out walking, it was quite noticeable in North Yorkshire/Durham way, we got cash from a cash point in Barnard Castle so we had some.

I only use cash. I don't want to live in a cashless society, I want choice.

I don't mind how I pay, phone, card or cash but I can't understand why some people, especially on MN seem to want to foist cashless on other people just because they don't use it. What does it matter what others do, if others want to pay in cash, it's not affecting them.

The pub owners have said that what annoys them the most are customers (groups of cyclists were specifically mentioned) who want to pay for a half pint of orange squash by card. They are considering adding a surcharge for card payments or only accepting card payments above a minimum amount.

For a £5 sale SumUp fees are 1.69%, and would round to 9p
Zettles are 1.75% also rounded to 9p

Suitable phones can take card payments and only need you to set up a SumUp or Zettle account

Their card machines that cost about £80 (plus VAT) can run independently without a phone / tablet - and are most likely to get a successful connection as they use their own on board SIM (no network cost) and only transmit / receive the transaction data

Ones in the range of £25-£40 (plus VAT) don’t have connectivity and need to connect via a phone, tablet etc

Every once in a while the suppliers run ‘promotions’ with cheaper handset prices
But if you go onto their websites and put a card reader into the shopping basket but don’t checkout then emails with discount offers are more likely to come through (my SumUp handset was free due to this)

If you get a more traditional point of sale system, paying a monthly fixed fee then the transaction charges fall. Such as 0.6% making the fee on £5 into 3p - which is 6p cheaper, so if you make enough card sales a month the monthly charge and greater up front costs are worth it

As long as their surcharge is the cost of handling that payments transaction fee they can, but any other surcharge based on a payment method is unlawful

Minimum payment amounts are legal, but for a retailer to set the minimum (or maximum) would be a breach the rules of the card machine provider - SumUp etc have a minimum of £1

That’s interesting. They have done neither but I think the prices for everybody have gone up.

Yes, I've noticed this.
I don't eat out in restaurants, so it's shops, bakeries etc.

We used to run a business. We never insisted either way, but both credit card charges and paying cash into the bank incur costs.

Debit cards were the cheapest to accept by far.
And Amex the most expensive (which we didn't accept).

You can avoid those costs completely legitimately, fully paid up in taxes and NI, all above board with HMRC and your accountant etc etc by paying your staff, even yourself, and pay some bills (at the post office) all in cash.

Obviously you need to have given receipts and have a paper trail.

It is completely understandable that businesses are choosing to do this. Every penny absolutely counts at the moment.

Debit cards were the cheapest to accept by far

That depends on the transaction amount.

When DP had a shop, well before the 'new breed' of card payments, it was a fixed fee for debit cards (about 40p) and a percentage of around 2% for credit cards with no minimum.

So if he took a small amount on a debit card, the fee could exceed his profit on a low price item - this is why some businesses set minimum limits. But the cost of a debit card for a larger purchase became more trivial.

For credit cards, it's fine for small items as it's pennies, but if it's a large purchase, the cost of accepting a credit card could be £20/30.

While not all businesses have a range of transaction amounts like this, it's important for the retailer to understand how they are charged for card payments and now it's possible to change to a service that's more cost effective.

If prices have gone up for all items, that could be because it's a place that has a lot of small transactions, and they have to allow for the type of people who'd buy a Mars bar or pint of milk with a card.

Personally, I pay with card most of the time, but I'm of an age where you were considered a bit of a twat for using a card for under about a fiver and most retailers wouldn't accept the payment anyway. Before that it was people paying by cheque for low purchases, usually because it was just before payday and they'd run out of money and knew that the cheque wouldn't be cashed until after they'd been paid.

So I do try to carry some cash and do use it for small purchases up to £2/3, plus there's also the times when you have to have cash, eg some parking meters or small retailers, plus the occasional time when the card system fails.

It's not just businesses shunning cash. Swanage Heritage Railway (a charity) have gone cashless!

https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/tickets

Not surprising. Cash is PITA for volunteer run attractions and temporary events. There is a security risk, you need to vet staff who are handling it, someone needs to store it securely or take it to the bank at the end of the day. Errors can happen with cashing up and you always need change.

In spite what is stated up thread, Amex are not always the dearest credit card to work with and do special deals with some small businesses.

While not all businesses have a range of transaction amounts like this, it's important for the retailer to understand how they are charged for card payments and now it's possible to change to a service that's more cost effective.

Exactly

When a friend upgraded to a point of sale system he was still using his SumUp as well, he would say that he’s only paying 0.6% fees, and then when pointing out he was only paying 0.6% on the new reader (plus fixed monthly) he said that he preferred to use the two side by side for different product types for ease of accounting

We then pointed out he was using the SumUp for the greater number of transactions, and managed to make him reverse them so that he could benefit from the lower rate without savings being offset by the fixed charge and higher SumUp rate

After it worked its way in for an understanding, he put the SumUp in the drawer for emergency’s and now benefits from the POS rate structure

I never use my debit card and it's not on my phone, I only use credit cards to pay with as they generally give incentives to spend on them. I didn't realise that charges for businesses were different for different types of cards.

I think the main problem with Amex is that "it's different" and needs a bit more "mind" time in terms of administration, set up, etc., so as it's such a "niche" card, most small businesses just can't be bothered to go through the set up, etc., especially if few, if any, customers try to pay by Amex.

Like anything else, if a large enough number of customers tried to pay by Amex, and couldn't, then the business owner/manager would start to look into it.

At the end of the day, for a busy small business owner, they just want something that works and that is affordable, so hence why they just go the mainstream route of the major bank offerings or the more competitive ones such as Lopay, SumUp, etc.

Larger/niche businesses are the ones who'd be looking for the "bells and whistles" providers to cover card purchases for high ticket items, and they're more likely to have "in house" expertise of maybe an in house accountant who has the time and experience to cast the net a bit more broadly for more comprehensive/niche/tailored card processing systems.

I have noticed this. My plumber, the beautician etc

I wearily repeat what I said upfront.

If you are using cash, you have to factor in the human cost of being a magnet for some very nasty types who wave machetes and shotguns around. Especially if you make the fact you accept cash a selling point.

I wouldn't want that risk for myself, not anyone working for me.

Indeed. Mr Monkey uaed to supervise bars at large events. When they took cash it was awful. Staff has to be body searched before and after shift, secure collections of cash had to be factored in every hour which took staff and sections of the bar out of action, there were constant calls for change.

Going cashless takes all that away.

Not seen any change myself.

I want cash to remain to stop banks and others who manage payments ripping us off, directly or indirectly. Keep competition as it were.

A small inconvenience to being held up with a sawn off and baseball bat.

Also given the nature of shop workers, it'll be women that face the highest risk.

You can if you are based in a shop etc, but if for example you are mobile and cant always get a signal, plus fees on top. It is all erosion of your cost base if you “ suck it up “. Im afraid i am doing this already with 20% price increases on some of my consumables and would have to pass the increase on to customers.

Yes, they have for me, and i have stopped card transactions because of this,but thanks for your input.

I'm not sure if it still is but Amex used to be more awkward in that they took longer to send the funds to the bank and more difficult to reconcile because they'd deduct their fees from the pay out rather than charge separately. More admin and manual journal adjustments were required.