Birth rate hits record low - 1.49 children per woman

[MidnightPatrol]

The ONS has released its latest data on the UK birthrate.

The number of children per women has dropped from 1.55 in 2022 to 1.49 in 2022 - the lowest on record.

This is the lowest number of births in the UK since 2002 - when the population was 10 million people smaller.

Do we think this problem will inevitably worsen? Are there particular reasons people are having less children (unique to the UK vs the rest of the world?).

Should we be taking steps to increase it / stop it reducing further?

Yes I think at both ends we just have to sit it out. I think we will, and should have assisted dying for the terminally I'll, but I don't think many people will just decide to off themselves at 75. Not enough to make a difference anyway. And we can't turn back time and make people have more children. And now, the smaller generations will mean fewer people to even have children. We need to just sit it out, and try and deal with the ageing population now until the smaller generations come through. Trying to increase the population now will just kick the can fiwn the road.

I can't for the life of me understand why people have children now, knowing what the future is likely to hold.

The whole economic system needs to/and will change when climate change really bites.

@Abeona If there were financial incentives for women to have babies the trans women will no doubt be holding their hands out for them whilst at the same time wanting to be funded for fertility treatment that is never going to be successful

No, I'm not. Death has never frightened me. I've always seen it as a relief, in some ways. And if I'm 75, my eldest child will be 45, so really won't need me. I haven't needed my own parents since I left home. They're currently at the age where they need me. But I'm fucked if I'll have my own kids have to look after me. And based on current trends, I may well not have grandchildren anyway.

My mother died suddenly at 75 after being healthy. I miss her so much and would love to see her again.

Someone mentioned family culture and I think in the UK, family values have also gone out the window. We live in a very individualist culture - someone earlier in the thread mentioned how China is very family oriented despite having had the one child policy for a while. That makes a huge difference.

I think being childfree by choice is fine, and I also feel for anyone that wished to have started their families earlier but couldn’t - however we have a culture where we send parents to care homes, modern life means we have so many health problems (plus impact on fertility), children are seen as a nuisance instead of the future. My family migrated here and a value I’ve grown up with is family - yes it can be a pain, but we look out for eachother, and have our own little family economy because if the government isn’t helping anyone, who else do you have.

The UK does not make having children appealing at all, whether it’s because of the lack of support, cost of living but most importantly it’s just not a priority when there are so many other factors to take care of. We don’t even have adequate “villages” to collectively bring up our children. These days everything falls on the woman.

I don’t think the decline is a terrible thing - we have been complaining about overpopulation for a while now. it seems most people on this thread are concerned about who will take care of the elderly. What are we doing to prepare the next generation that we have! Right now the most idolised jobs aren’t care or public sector work.

I can only speak for us and our childless friends, but we just can't afford to have children. Housing is too expensive, wages are too low. We couldn't financially cope with how low maternity pay is, or cover the cost of childcare to have both of us work. If childcare was free, we might be able to have 1 child, but we would take a hit on our standard of living.

Anyone anywhere in the world takes a hit on their standard of living when you have a child, unless you live somewhere where child labour is still common. That is not going to change.

Its only very very recently that being married/having a partner and not having children was a choice that could be made

Spinsters have always been a thing. Childless couples were not rare even in Medieval times. Unwed pregnant women received help via institutions.

It's like the people who say women never worked. They always worked.

Does that hold true for successive generations? If so, I'd be interested to know what their secret is, as the British Muslim population still face the same pressures as the rest of us in terms of female education, contraception, housing and childcare costs.

🌹@ItsAllAboutTheDosh

Yes but it's a consideration in whether or not or when to have children, especially as many are already cutting back on luxuries due to the cost of living.
For us it's a moot point, as we couldn't afford the drop in pay for Mat Leave, and we definitely can't afford to survive on one income or pay for childcare.

It's always been like that though

I had 3 young dc and we were skint

I made an earlier point about seeing more data. British Muslim and Jewish families seem to above normal amount of children. There are different cultural and religious pressures/restrictions for women. Do they face the same pressures? Not if there isn't pressure to work as childcare is then free. I also wonder if these communities are better at 'cutting their cloth'.

Additionally the facts show that Bangladeshi communities receive more in benefits:

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/sources-of-household-income/latest/

I also wonder how much money and services are kept within tight knit communities so it's not going through the tax system. I am NOT suggesting they aren't paying tax btw.

There's being skint and there's we would lose our house within a year as we wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage.
Growing up, all my primary school class mates had one working parent and one stay at home parent, and while they didn't live lavish lifestyles, they were comfortable. The cost of living was significantly less back then though and wages were comparatively higher.

The way the NHS has gone, i wouldn't ever put myself through the risks of pregnancy and birth again in this day and age.

I agree.

This is also surely a large factor.
Pre-internet women could not exchange information information and collaborate in anything like the way we can now. These days we have much greater access to the experiences of other people and can get a more accurate overview of situations in the healthcare sector.
I'm not saying there isn't disinformation or inaccuracies but ultimately knowledge is power and we have access to much more of it now.

I'm one of these people.

DH and I have a home with a mortgage, jobs, a car, holidays. We're not rich but we're comfortable-ish. We go on mid range holidays abroad a couple times a year.

We just don't want to have children. It doesn't appeal to either of us. Especially seeing the state of schools/the NHS/the cost of larger houses.

I have a few friends with kids, both parents working themselves to the bone, kids in childcare, barely managing to afford to live.

Why would I do that? My friends with kids are exhausted, stressed, dealing with school issues, too small housing, not being able to afford anything past the essentials.

DH and I don't think having kids would make us happier. We think it would make us less happy in many ways. Should I have children that I don't want in order to support the future economy of the country? No thank you.

@makeanddo I think your point about the Muslim and Jewish communities are interesting. I can only speak from my experience of understanding the Christian community, but many Christians hold very strong family values. Children are seen as an investment (I’m trying to think of a better term that doesn’t commodify them) - but whenever I speak to more religious people about being a parent, they will always say it’s a “blessing”. Children are valuable. The general public couldn’t care less about other people’s children.

Also these groups have community. When my mum divorced and was left as a lone parent we had so much support from the church and the church community - we had food given to us, they had clubs (one of my churches still run a mother and baby club and soup kitchen and the usual mid week group - so lots of socialising). You never really felt alone and this “village” element is missing in modern society.

I live in London and I’d say a majority of parents that are not religious have small families, some don’t have grandparents nearby and maybe migrated here. Both parents might work but the complaint I always hear is the lack of services for children. I believe religious groups (and other groups) build some of these resources that the government have cut. Or sometimes the woman stays at home and chooses the housewife rules (now that can both be good or bad depending on if it’s their choice).

When I went to church I felt I was going more for my daughter than myself because every Sunday she got to mingle with other kids, play around, they were so pro family.

I do find many religious people (and I also see this more in working class culture) will stay close to family. I know multigenerational living is common for certain cultures. Grand parents are nearby because of this.

Im generalising based on experience. But would love to see more studies or data on this.

@2024theplot

We struggled with our mortgage so a family member helped us for a short time.

It wasn't great

I agree the COL has got worse in the last 20 years'

We just don't want to have children.

what people fail to forget is that the state pension was based on something like 6 people paying for every one person drawing out their pension. So what do people think will actually happen if we don't have the next generation to take the place of the "6" and no immigration isn't the answer.

Fine don't have kids but I think their should be greater benefits for those of us that have chosen to have children to be honest

I'm glad you had a family member to help you, unfortunately we wouldn't be able to get any financial or practical support from family (not that we would expect it, but it has been suggested to us a few times when we explain why we can't have kids). Our friends are mostly in the same situation, a mix of increased cost of living and higher retirement ages impacting the support their family could provide, and being driven away from the areas their family live in due to house prices.

Yes I think something needs to be done about this. Current workers are paying for current pensioners triple lock when they will in all likelihood not even get a pension at all. It's already likely to rise to over 70. AI will not be paying income tax or buying things, and if people don't have jobs because of AI, they won't be buying things either. We will have to radically change how we do things, as Capitalism just won't work without people buying and selling things and paying taxes.