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Which issues are the ones likely to swing a general election result ?

204 replies

Georgeduhamel · 17/02/2024 10:53

Seems to be a big difference in real life outside MN and MN.
Most people I know are frustrated by the state of public services and the lack of money despite sky high taxes. Local schools are falling apart, NHS non functioning despite best efforts of the staff and our town centre is now reminiscent of an East European backwater in the 1970s with barely any shops and homeless folk on every corner. We also have a particularly inept Tory MP so I anticipate people will want to get rid of him.
Which things will affect your vote ? What’s most important ? In some respects I guess it depends on your personal situation and where you live. Leafy affluent home in Surrey life might not have changed, council estate in Rochdale you might be more eager to get rid of the current lot in government.
On MN, maybe understandably, gender ideology and labour’s uncertain stance seems to be a hot topic but does that trump the cost of living crisis or the lack of GP appointments or 24 hour delays in A/E ?
Fwiw I’m in agreement with most of the GC arguments but that won’t influence my vote for Labour.

OP posts:
AndIdratherplayhereWithalltheM · 17/02/2024 21:22

@givenup123 another good list

Papyrophile · 17/02/2024 21:25

@Pensionworries I agree with bits of your post.

definitely sort the roads out.

Fine parents who abuse teachers.

Otherwise, I feel you are a bit misguided. In no particular order:
You can't force dentists to treat patients when the NHS doesn't pay you what it costs to do the treatment.
The NHS gets a massive chunk of GDP and could soak up every last cent. It needs reining in. Not every treatment that is possible should be funded. There should be constraints on eligibility. For example, people of working age and with young children should automatically be prioritised above retired people on waiting lists.

It's a lovely idea to think you can tax the rich at higher rates. I am only ordinary MC but I have worked for 40 years and have read the financial pages of broadsheet newspapers every weekend and prepared for retirement, so if you threaten punitive taxation, I shall move overseas to one of the jurisdictions that views reasonably well to do Brit pensioners as fair game. Google Portugal D7 pension rules.
Zero hours contracts work quite well for young people who haven't decided on careers, or who are PT during study. I have a huge problem with major companies (like supermarkets) being allowed to cap hours below entitlement to pensions, sick and holiday pay thresholds. #

I think most of the remainder of your post is personal frustration and I can't help.

Portakalkedi · 17/02/2024 21:31

NHS
Immigration
Crime/lack of police
Justice system is a joke
Wasting money on ridiculous things like HS2
Pouring billions into supporting wars in other countries
I also think there is no one to merit my vote so have no idea what I will do when the time comes ... the whole country needs such a radical shakeup but there's nobody to do it.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

FitAt50 · 17/02/2024 21:34

I always voted Tory but they have become a disgrace. Full of blatant racists and those just out for themselves. I really think the party is finished.

Lea3 · 17/02/2024 22:18

LauderSyme · 17/02/2024 18:34

@Lea3 Thank you for your thoughtful and substantive posts which have provided much food for thought.

Thank you and likewise - I appreciate the good faith discussion.

justasking111 · 17/02/2024 22:28

FitAt50 · 17/02/2024 21:34

I always voted Tory but they have become a disgrace. Full of blatant racists and those just out for themselves. I really think the party is finished.

I think all parties whether they be MPs, AMs or councillors are riddled with self serving not particularly intelligent individuals.

IClaudine · 17/02/2024 22:43

For example, people of working age and with young children should automatically be prioritised above retired people on waiting lists

Charming.

How do you define retired people? People in receipt of the state pension? People who have retired early due to ill health or due to caring responsibilities or simply because they can afford to do so?

justasking111 · 17/02/2024 23:18

IClaudine · 17/02/2024 22:43

For example, people of working age and with young children should automatically be prioritised above retired people on waiting lists

Charming.

How do you define retired people? People in receipt of the state pension? People who have retired early due to ill health or due to caring responsibilities or simply because they can afford to do so?

Sorry prioritised for what?

IClaudine · 17/02/2024 23:25

justasking111 · 17/02/2024 23:18

Sorry prioritised for what?

Healthcare. See post by Papyrophile.

Notaflippinclue · 17/02/2024 23:27

God I knew there was a reason I shouldn't have worked 7 days a week for the last 50 years

justasking111 · 17/02/2024 23:33

IClaudine · 17/02/2024 23:25

Healthcare. See post by Papyrophile.

Ah thanks. All these retired child minders are such a bloody nuisance 🙄

Pensionworries · 18/02/2024 07:05

Papyrophile · 17/02/2024 21:25

@Pensionworries I agree with bits of your post.

definitely sort the roads out.

Fine parents who abuse teachers.

Otherwise, I feel you are a bit misguided. In no particular order:
You can't force dentists to treat patients when the NHS doesn't pay you what it costs to do the treatment.
The NHS gets a massive chunk of GDP and could soak up every last cent. It needs reining in. Not every treatment that is possible should be funded. There should be constraints on eligibility. For example, people of working age and with young children should automatically be prioritised above retired people on waiting lists.

It's a lovely idea to think you can tax the rich at higher rates. I am only ordinary MC but I have worked for 40 years and have read the financial pages of broadsheet newspapers every weekend and prepared for retirement, so if you threaten punitive taxation, I shall move overseas to one of the jurisdictions that views reasonably well to do Brit pensioners as fair game. Google Portugal D7 pension rules.
Zero hours contracts work quite well for young people who haven't decided on careers, or who are PT during study. I have a huge problem with major companies (like supermarkets) being allowed to cap hours below entitlement to pensions, sick and holiday pay thresholds. #

I think most of the remainder of your post is personal frustration and I can't help.

And the award for the biggest mansplainer goes to…

Grandiose much. 🙄

taxguru · 18/02/2024 07:34

Controlling Immigration
Improving public transport
Repurpose town centres
Tackling all kinds of crime
Help for small businesses
Stop the war on motorists
Tackle the black economy

makeanddo · 18/02/2024 09:01

I'm almost 100% certain I will be spoiling my ballot paper because the rights of women's and girls is my no.1.

Anyway the only thing that might change my mind is a party that talks seriously about complete reform.

More tax (of the general population) is not the answer, it's reform we need.

There are some very difficult and uncomfortable changes that need to be made and I don't think any of them have the courage to say it neither do I think our current civil servants have the impetus, skill or desire to put change through at the pace it is needed.

lavenderlou · 18/02/2024 09:10

When people say "controlling immigration" is a priority, what exactly do they mean by that? The bast majority of immigration is legal. Stopping immigration even where it's needed? That would involve a complete restructure of the economy so that essential workers could be found without the need for immigration. May not even be possible due to the demographics of the UK? Not allowing asylum seekers in, which is an international right? Stopping people arriving by small boats? There needs to be an alternative entry route with proper processing. Reduce the amount spent on housing asylum seekers in hotels etc? Get the processing system sorted so it can be done quickly and people will either be deported if they don't meet the criteria or be allowed to start working.

EasternStandard · 18/02/2024 09:15

lavenderlou · 18/02/2024 09:10

When people say "controlling immigration" is a priority, what exactly do they mean by that? The bast majority of immigration is legal. Stopping immigration even where it's needed? That would involve a complete restructure of the economy so that essential workers could be found without the need for immigration. May not even be possible due to the demographics of the UK? Not allowing asylum seekers in, which is an international right? Stopping people arriving by small boats? There needs to be an alternative entry route with proper processing. Reduce the amount spent on housing asylum seekers in hotels etc? Get the processing system sorted so it can be done quickly and people will either be deported if they don't meet the criteria or be allowed to start working.

Nowhere could deal with the numbers if there was an alternate entry route.

Unless you said no to many and then trafficking would still exist and international law still allow entry

1dayatatime · 18/02/2024 09:23

@Papyrophile

I don't disagree with what you have written which is an accurate account of what happened, except there was an alternative.

The reason that the Brits were unwilling to do the jobs that those hard working Eastern Europeans were willing to do is because a) their aspirations and belief in their worth outstripped their actual ability - an arrogance that gives "I'm so much better than just picking fruit or being a plumber" b) a welfare system and family support that allowed them to just opt out of working, develop no no skills, have a bad attitude to work and become unemployable c) wages in those roles that were only marginally above what they could get on welfare.

By changing these points for example by cutting welfare payments (politically challenging) or paying more for such roles (economically/ inflationary challenging) then you could instead employ Brits in those jobs.

But realistically this was never going to happen and it was quicker and easier just to employ hard working Eastern Europeans.

EasternStandard · 18/02/2024 09:33

1dayatatime · 18/02/2024 09:23

@Papyrophile

I don't disagree with what you have written which is an accurate account of what happened, except there was an alternative.

The reason that the Brits were unwilling to do the jobs that those hard working Eastern Europeans were willing to do is because a) their aspirations and belief in their worth outstripped their actual ability - an arrogance that gives "I'm so much better than just picking fruit or being a plumber" b) a welfare system and family support that allowed them to just opt out of working, develop no no skills, have a bad attitude to work and become unemployable c) wages in those roles that were only marginally above what they could get on welfare.

By changing these points for example by cutting welfare payments (politically challenging) or paying more for such roles (economically/ inflationary challenging) then you could instead employ Brits in those jobs.

But realistically this was never going to happen and it was quicker and easier just to employ hard working Eastern Europeans.

This is insightful

It was an easier fix but as many are finding out it comes back later politically.

France, Germany, Italy and U.K. and the Netherlands are good examples and others

CurlewKate · 18/02/2024 09:42

@makeanddo "I'm almost 100% certain I will be spoiling my ballot paper because the rights of women's and girls is my no.1."

And that would help exactly how?

billysboy · 18/02/2024 09:50

Housing and planning , we need a lot more houses built and a stop to right to buy
Everyone agrees we need more houses ," but just not here " Houses need to be more affordable
Its never going to happen with all the gammons tucked up in their houses they bought years ago

justasking111 · 18/02/2024 09:56

I'm going to vote reform. I know they won't get in anywhere but those votes countrywide hopefully make the others sit up and take notice. It's my protest in Wales

makeanddo · 18/02/2024 10:00

@CurlewKate because I am exercising my right to vote but saying there is no party that I can vote for. Whilst no-one is ever in 100% agreement with a party my belief in biological sex and the rights of women and girls means I won't vote Labour, Lib Dem or Green. I won't vote Conservative for all the obvious reasons, I'm also in a 'safe' Conservative seat.

I will look at independents however and decide nearer the time. A spoiled ballot is counted and included in stats. Perhaps if people knew this they would vote rather than staying at home.

HumanBurrito · 18/02/2024 10:02

Climate change for me.

CurlewKate · 18/02/2024 10:21

@makeanddo I understand that a spoiled ballot counts. And obviously it's better than not turning up. However, pragmatically it makes no difference. And potentially leaves the system open to extremists who are usually good at getting their supporters out.

Lea3 · 18/02/2024 10:26

1dayatatime · 18/02/2024 09:23

@Papyrophile

I don't disagree with what you have written which is an accurate account of what happened, except there was an alternative.

The reason that the Brits were unwilling to do the jobs that those hard working Eastern Europeans were willing to do is because a) their aspirations and belief in their worth outstripped their actual ability - an arrogance that gives "I'm so much better than just picking fruit or being a plumber" b) a welfare system and family support that allowed them to just opt out of working, develop no no skills, have a bad attitude to work and become unemployable c) wages in those roles that were only marginally above what they could get on welfare.

By changing these points for example by cutting welfare payments (politically challenging) or paying more for such roles (economically/ inflationary challenging) then you could instead employ Brits in those jobs.

But realistically this was never going to happen and it was quicker and easier just to employ hard working Eastern Europeans.

Firstly what tired, self-abasing rhetoric, using the comparison between "hardworking Eastern Europeans" and "lazy, entitled, arrogant Brits" who need their benefits cut.

The salient point you made revolves around increasing wages for these roles. But why would companies do that when they have access to an endless supply of cheap labor?

People don't migrate here because they have such sheer adoration for us that they want to do our jobs for us; they do so because they see economic opportunities. Even if it means living with several to a room, they can save money which in turn has greater value back in their home countries with lower living costs.

As living standards improve in their home countries they'll be less willing to do so, and you'll see more of the next group. People respond to economic incentives. Or, people are simply brought who are accustomed to a lower standard of living - creating a race to the bottom. I've seen it in one city I previously lived where multiple tenants per room has now become the norm.

Secondly, for some of the other roles you mentioned, there needs to be more training courses and technical colleges.