UK officially in recession...

[Startingagainandagain]

Latest stats released show the UK is now officially in recession (Office for national statistic data).

Gaslighting has started in the media by ministers to try to minimise that fact.

Isn't it time to face the facts instead and call a general election?

I know the picture is bleak and any new party in power will need years to try to sort out this mess but something needs to be done...

The UK's decline in the past few decade or so has really been dramatic.

I’m a labour voter, just a realistic one.

One thing that confuses me is the ageing population/immigration issue. On the one hand the population is aging, and on the other we are seeing record levels of immigration. Both are seen as a bad thing, but unless we are importing elderly people which isn't what I keep hearing about, its usually 'why are these young, fit men fleeing war zones' , then immigration might actually be a good thing if we need economically active people ?

I think we’ll have no choice but to really limit the conditions under which people can receive out of work benefits, as PPs have said. I keep looking for another way but there isn’t one.

Job seekers allowance is £84.80 a week. To receive this you have to satisfy criteria as long as your arm. You have to have been in employment prior to your claim.

I don't know how hard you want to make it. What happens to the children of people who can't claim benefits when they are destitute?

There was a time in my life when I was unemployed and then my husband was made redundant. Benefits helped us keep our family's head above water until we could get back on our feet. Since then DH and I have spent 30 years working and paying taxes, started our own business and employed others.

I do not know what would have happened to us during that terrible time if we had no access to the welfare state.

I can't remember PPs, except yourself, saying that we have no choice but to really limit the conditions under which people can receive out of work benefits.

I completely agree. If the government hadn't created the immigrant scapegoat they would have been in danger of having to admit their own failings.

@DillyD0007854

''What evidence can you give if you have, for example, fibromyalgia or depression? I’m not being facetious I’m interested to know.''

In the case of depression you would be expected to supply evidence such as details of regular medication (anti-depressants), copy of referral to counselling services, letters confirming interaction with community mental health/crisis teams, evidence from GP and then describe how depression affects your daily life.

It is not accurate to think that PIP is easy to get and that the decision is just based on what the claimant says...

No fear of that @Dapbag.🙄

The benefits system should be absolutely there for your brother & your family member. I also have 3 family members/friends in similar situations that absolutely can’t work and 1 of these is depressed at the loss of her working life.

However, for those that know how to work it (and there are plenty) it is too generous & lenient. It can’t continue as it is imo. For every genuine case, there’s another one that simply has never & will never want to work.

But they in themselves aren’t evidence as such - anyone can get antidepressants if they say they feel depressed. Or self refer to counselling. I’m sorry to be so cynical and I’m not saying most people cheat the system, but surely you can see how somebody committed to not working sees a few GP appointments as worth it to secure the benefits?

Thank you, this is interesting. Given that apparently UK is the only one with these problems and they’re all caused by our government. Everywhere else seemingly thriving because they aren’t being led by the tories🤔

No one would take antidepressants who didn't need them. Counselling services are self referral in order to improve access and anyone who does refer has an immediate initial assessment. I really don't recognise this model of loads of people wantonly lying about mental distress with all the implications for health records, insurance and so on this has in order to get £78 a week.

I didn’t say they actually take them, just that they can fairly easily be prescribed. I doubt people who do it are worried about insurance. You can’t measure others by your own sensibilities. Do you live quite a middle class life? Have you ever lived on a fairly deprived estate?

Nobody gets counselling. There isn’t any. To get therapy you need to be under community mental health and assessed by a psych. It’s unlikely you’d get much even then.A letter from your gp isnt going to cut it with PIP . The form is lengthy and has about 14 areas and you need to score enough over all of it .My dd gets the full amount but has 3 conditions and several diagnoses. You need proper evidence, documentation and assessments, letters, meeting minutes from professionals . A prescription of ADs from a gp would never in a million years be enough.

I think you have some quite profound misapprehensions as to how mental health services work @Naptrappedmummy

And about quite a few other things too or they're just following the party line

... And how the benefits system works. There have been numerous cases of people experiencing severe mental distress who have been denied benefits and gone on to kill themselves. A couple of months ago the Coroner service took the unprecedented step of alerting the DWP minister to the profound and repeated safeguarding failures that are happening as a direct result of the benefits system leaving claimants with no income at all. A system where people die for lack of help is not a system that is easy to scam.

Didn’t answer this I see..

@StarDolphins can you point me in the direction of any comments on this thread which state that every other country is thriving?

Sigh. I live in a council flat.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/coroner-tells-dwp-to-act-on-universal-credit-safety-after-claimants-suicide/#:~:text=A%20coroner%20has%20warned%20work,overwhelmed%20by%20the%20application%20process.

If you RTWT it’s very much suggesting that a lot of our problems are caused solely by our government & we’re worse off than others because of this.

Agree. This poster is just pulling theories out of her arse.

Do you not see that we ARE worse off? And if that's not the fault of our government, then whose fault is it? As I stated earlier the UK is performing worse than other G7 countries. It's a fact, as even the most simplistic google search will testify if you care to look.

There are lots of stories like this. https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwp-ignored-hugely-alarming-research-that-linked-wca-with-600-suicides-mps-are-told/

@Naptrappedmummy

''But they in themselves aren’t evidence as such - anyone can get antidepressants if they say they feel depressed. Or self refer to counselling. I’m sorry to be so cynical and I’m not saying most people cheat the system, but surely you can see how somebody committed to not working sees a few GP appointments as worth it to secure the benefits?''

Really?

You think people take and pay for anti-depressants when they don't actually need them?

Before you are accepted for counselling sessions through the NHS you also will have an initial assessment with a counsellor to see whether you meet the required criteria. Again it is not something you can easily access.

You also ignore the fact that I mentioned people submitting evidence from mental health teams. You don't get support from mental health crisis teams or end up on a psychiatric ward unless you are really having serious mental health issues...

Also PIP has nothing to do with whether you work or not.

You can be in employment and get PIP and it is not a means-tested benefit.

Frankly there is so much stigma and ignorance about mental health issues and it really is not appropriate to suggest people are faking depression just to get benefits.

Depression is a serious, long term condition that has a huge impact on daily life, not just a bit of low mood...

People out of work don’t pay for prescriptions, so they don’t pay for them. I don’t know if they actually take them.