Woman dies whilst waiting to be seen at A&E

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68243636

The poor woman- She had been waiting 7 hours before she was found unconscious then dies few days later.
Now they want to launch an investigation into this case - like doh?? Isn’t it obvious that because she wasn’t treated promptly, she died? Maybe recruit and pay staff more to avoid cases like this happening again? But no, they would rather waste money and put it into investigating it instead of fixing the blinding obvious issue here that A&Es are not coping.

It was shocking to read and about all the terrible experiences on this thread. The thought of ending up in A&E is petrifying .

What I don’t understand is why, when I realised I hadn’t had a bone density scan for 6 years, I filled in an online form on GPs website. Asked that if GP felt I needed another one, could I have a referral. Preferred contact I ticked email. Two hours later, GP phoned to discuss it, referred me and next day I got a call from hospital to ask if I could come the following week. Had scan and next day got a text with the results from GP! I was stunned but also thinking why, when this is totally not urgent, was everything so fast and ultra efficient? I’ve waited 18 months for a nerve ablation and for a dermatology appt for 6 months so far. It makes no sense.

And where exactly did I say that wasn't the case ffs

I was 12 hours for this. They were shooting morphine in my mouth in the chair after I was begging for help. It’s a serious condition that can go badly really quickly.

I was recently diagnosed with a PE and this could so easily have been me. I've been to A&E x3 and initially was discharged with costochondritis and dismissed by a Dr even though the walk in over 15hrs before had suspected a clot on the lung, as had a specialist who gave me oramorph for the pain and suggested at CT beforehand. I then waited a week in agony at home because the Dr who discharged me basically said it was all in my head and pretended he had put a folow up for a CT on my discharge to rule it out, when in fact he had not. I had to go via emailing my GP (they don't take calls any more) to get the discharge notes to discover this before being blue lighted back in and after another 18hr wait in A&E the PE finally being found by CT.
I was again blue lighted in a week later as I couldn't breathe, left in a wheelchair for around 15hrs with no food before being admitted for "scans the next day" as no one had managed to book me in throughout the day, only to be discharged by a different Dr in the morning, who I had to even tell about the PE! He literally didn't even know why I was in the bed. The care is not joined up and is a waste of everyone's time.

I've since had no follow up at all, can't get through to GP unless I email and apparently can't even go private as there is no one local to me to even pay to get help. I was diagnosed and discharged within 5 minutes and just told to keep taking thinners and wait for a phonecall from hematology, which was scheduled for a month later and I've not had it yet. I'm still getting leg pains and feel there is something wrong with the other lung (which was why I went in to A&E the last time unable to breathe, pains in legs and arms) but there is no point in me going in again just to be left, or worse, kept in over night with no sleep only to be discharged with no scans and a £50 taxi fare. At this point I'd rather just die at home.

So many terrible stories on this thread 😞😞❤️ What on earth is happening to our health system? 😞

I’m so sorry you’ve had this experience - we’ve got many group members in the health groups I’m in having very similar experiences. It just isn’t good enough.

Private companies now run a lot of these simple nonurgent services under the NHS Banner so you aren't aware they are private.
They have a predictable workload, no emergencies or out-of-hours, and staff not as stressed so better staff retention. They are given a budget and can choose how to operate their system.
It is like comparing apples and oranges.
Private companies love diagnostic testing, it has a predictable cost and predictable workload, and it's easy compared to trying to budget acute care with complex patients, emergencies, and unknown workloads. It's why private hospitals don't have A&Es or even ICUs

@reesewithoutaspoon I don't understand then why my GP has told me there are no referral options for him to send me privately? He said there are no specialist hematologists in the area and was looking into referring me for respiratory - that was on Tuesday night and I've not heard anything back from him. If there are so many private options surely they'd be easy for him to find?

Because a PE would be classed as urgent rather than scheduled.
Your care should involve close monitoring because of the thinners you are on, and regular blood tests to adjust levels. It's not something the private sector tends to deal with.
hematology isn't something I've seen in private practice unless they have a special interest.
Most private Drs are NHS specialists who contract their services out. Most hematologists are hospital-based and work closely with oncology because that's where the bulk of their work is.

Surely the answer here is more money being paid into triage?!

my hospital has just opened a department that is for A and E cases for patients who are unlikely to need to be admitted onto a ward to stop the block.

triage should:
redirect into a walk in centre
redirect into an urgent but ward unlikely
serious emergency

at forementioned 12 hour wait for gallbladder there were people going ahead of me for SORE FINGERS. Get those fuckers to urgent care.

I’ve had a completely different experience in a&e. I was taken, by ambulance, with suspected concussion one Saturday night. In and out within an hour including being examined by a doctor.

You should and used to be triaged on arrival. There would be a nurse allocated to triage patients on arrival. but if staffing is low and resus is full then they are pulled off triage.

Poor staffing and lack of social care is the root cause of a lot of the current issues.

We lost loads of very good European nurses with Brexit , there was also a well-known and predicted hump of very senior nurses coming to retirement age over the last 5 to 10 years. They had been warning of it since I started nursing in 1985, it wasn't a surprise. Covid accelerated that and the NHS hemorrhaged a lot of experience because staff had had enough and took early retirement if they could.
This then led to a system with low staffing and a large cohort of very junior staff thrown into a very stressed system, without support from senior staff, add in poor pay for the stress levels and moral injury and they are jumping ship as soon as they can.
retention is awful,
But the government's answer has been to mass recruit from India, Pakistan, Thailand, and the Philippines. Robbing those countries of staff they paid to train.
The hospital I was in sent groups over and were mass recruiting 100 nurses at a time.

@reesewithoutaspoon thank you, that makes sense. It's a sad state of affairs when even going privately is being blocked because of the poor state of NHS. There is literally nowhere for me to go to get care.

@NewOrder I just wanted to say how jealous I am of your username. My favourite band. Why didn’t I think of it?!

I was blue lighted in Monday with chemo complications - suspected neutropenic sepsis and clot

I was quickly isolated as best they could, given IV treatment whilst waiting on tests and a bed

Outside was an elderly lady on a trolley and I heard her daughter talking to a nurse. She'd been on holiday when she was called to say her mum was being ambulanced to hospital, so she got a flight back ASAP and came straight to hospital

From GOA and her mum still hadn't been seen. In all the time it took her to come from Goa

I wouldn't believe it had I not heard it myself esp given how quickly I was seen

Hope you're feeling better soon, the system is so broken and you really have to fight for the treatment you need and deserve, and it shouldn't be like this. The last thing you want to do when you're ill is go into battle.
There are NICE guidelines for the treatment of PE, It worthwhile familiarising yourself with them, so you know what you should be receiving and what you need. They are very clinical though so can be scary to read when they mention stuff like risk of death etc. So just a heads up if you choose to do that.

It's terrible and even though they investigate the person is still dead.

My elderly MIL was sent home after a fall and confirmed brain bleed. The next day she took a turn for the worse. The ambulance were sat for more than an hour with her arguing with the hospitals which hospital to take her to. By the time she was seen it was too late and we spent a week waiting for her to die. The hospital have confirmed that she should have been kept in and operated on and could have survived. It's tragic.

Absolutely. I started a thread on the very subject a few months ago when the national insurance cuts were announced. I said I didn’t want a tax cut, I would rather the nhs got more money. I accept I’m in a privileged position where I’m not struggling to pay the bills but I’m not the only one who could afford more. There ought to be some sort of system where those in need got a tax cut and some of us paid more….like oh income tax. Increase that then?? I guess maybe they are by not moving the higher rate tax band…..but I’m not in the higher rate tax band 🤷‍♀️.

Some people disagreed and probably correctly pointed out that the nhs is so badly managed that chucking more and more money at such a wasteful system won’t help. But why aren’t they reforming it/sorting it out? Easier to let it fail and outsource it I guess. And of course all the fucking political fat cats will make money, they’ll take back handers, they’ll have shares in companies which get contracts,they’ll be promised positions on boards. It’s so bloody corrupt we should be rioting!

Not wanting to pay through taxes is so short sighted though. If you look at America people pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month for basic insurance and still have to co pay for their treatment or have annual deductibles (like an excess) where they are responsible for the first say 5k of treatment per year.
I would much rather pay an extra few Pence in tax than have the uncertainty of suddenly having to stump up a co pay or deductible.

By trying to find excuses regarding the circumstances, her medical history or the fact that she may have collapsed elsewhere anyway you are minimising the responsibility of the A&E staff. Whatever the medical reason, it was at least neglect that she was left to die this way and no one noticed. If there was a chance to actually save her, it’s even worse.

That poor woman should not have had to wait seven hours to see a doctor to be assessed, that’s the point.

People are ending up at a&e with the wait times for referral too

I've got endometriosis, they know this from the ultrasound. Was referred to a private hospital, they can't do anything because they don't have a bowel surgeon so referred me back to my local hospital

Wait time? 12 months min. They've said I will also likely need an MRI so it would make sense to do that in the meantime but they won't until I see the consultant

I ended up in a&e because I can't manage my period pain and my GP can't do any more. Thankfully this has got me pushed up the list but if it didn't, I could have been in a&e monthly for the next year

I know people will say oh it's just period pain but I've broken both my ankles and that was a 4/10, a herniated disc with cauda equina was 9/10 and this is a full on 10/10 where it feels like I will either die or my stomach will explode

There needs to be a change across the way. Eg

• a GP in A&E to see all those who cannot get in to see their GP anymore.
• geriatric hospitals to take the bed blockers who are too old and frail to be discharged but nothing wrong with them except old age. Ie not fixable
• an age limit on treatment eg my colleagues 94 year old grandparent having an operation scheduled. What a waste of resources.
• mental health hospitals eith A&E where people who are suicidal or self harming or psychotic etc can access fast care.
• it is ridiculous that unless someone has a DNR then hospitals have to revive them.

So many resources are used unnecessarily. Eg DH goes in with shoulder injury. No xray or scan done. Referral to physio for 12 weeks. No difference so Referral back to hospital. Scan done to determine 2 tendons snapped completely do physio has no difference whatsoever. Operation scheduled for repair 3 months later and then 12 more weeks of physio which due to the delay in treatment is less than successful and result is now ongoing cortisone injectionsand painkillers, all of which use GP appointments to access.

Absolutely, you can drop down dead from them when they burst and even with the best cpr you are probably not going to survive. I am sorry about your colleague. The difference with the woman who died in the hospital though is that she was in hospital before hers burst, potentially 7 hours before it burst. Which is plenty of time to scan and treat. Though I accept maybe all protocols were followed and she just didn’t present seriously enough for it to be deemed a likely scenario 🤷‍♀️.

That’s terrible but it’s getting worse. A Yorkshire hospital currently has six beds in 4 bedded bays, so the 2 beds in the middle have no curtains, no call bell, you can’t charge your phone up. This is on the wards, not a&e. No extra staff for the extra patient load. They’ve filled every bay now with six beds so now have some patients in beds on the ward corridor.

I know somebody who has been on a ward corridor for a week. No call bell, sleeping with no privacy and strange men walking past her, making comments, etc. she can’t call for a nurse when she feels unwell or unsafe. The lights are on 24/7.