Anyone still suffering lockdown fallout?

[EmmaEmerald]

I don’t want to tag any of the original people who helped me out a lot as I know this thread will attract a lot of nasty folk

but every so often I feel absolutely in shock still at how the fallout goes on.

suppose I’m seeking reassurance it won’t be like this forever but it might be, I guess.

@JenniferBooth I thought that too . - they should have been given out for free -

The NHS is "fucked now anyway" because of years of Tory austerity

@lovescats3 how much money do you think it needs spending on it to put it right?

It wasn’t in a great state under Labour either.

Blair /Brown damaged it beyond repair with their ruinously expensive PFI for over-the-top shiny new hospitals along with stupid pay rises for GPs for doing less work.

We've had over 20 years of throwing money at the NHS. Trouble is that a lot went to PFI (and is still doing, tens of billions every year!) to line the pockets of Blair's friends in the financial services industry. Brown/Blair trebled NHS spending but it still wasn't enough. It's trebled again since then. There's just no stopping the waste and inefficiency.

Interested too. Funding has gone up but if pp think it needs to go up faster how much are we talking?

And where from

Exactly right.

I thought the lockdowns and not being able to meet etc were all over by the time the Ukrainians were coming here.

I think the issue with care workers is very different to Ukrainians moving into family homes. I'm assuming no one with a very vulnerable adult in the home would be taking in people who weren't vaccinated whereas care workers are working with vulnerable people.

The problem with the care worker vaccine rules isn't anything to do with Ukraine. It was a fucking terrible idea because the government were told that people would leave the sector, that it was not in fact going to lead to a greater supply of vaccinated staff. But they were so arrogant they did it anyway. And quelle surprise, more bed blocking.

I think one of the big issues was they announced it with months before implementation. By the time the cut off date arrived things had changed drastically but they were slow to acknowledge that.

They were, but also it would never have been a good idea at any point. I understand why people would prefer vaccinated carers to unvaccinated, but that wasn't actually the choice we were making.

It was in the care home where I worked. All the staff had it done well before the deadline. None of us would have put our residents at increased risk which is surely what anyone would expect?

I'm one of the lucky people whose life during lockdown wasn't much different to my life before lockdown. The only difference was working from home, and not going to bars/restaurants as often (which I didn't do much anyway) - and I saw these as positive changes.

I never really had any friends or a social life, I don't see family often.

I still went outside for walks throughout, and I would food shop late at night so avoided the things like queuing others mentioned. The "embarrassment" others refer to when thinking about that time doesn't resonate, because I didn't do much different to normal. Similar to the analogy to WW2 - I can't see the parallels.

Obviously I'm aware of the societal impact, deaths, mental health crisis, job losses that others faced and that everyone's experience was different.

People shouldn't have been expecting it once the relevant unions had explained exactly what was going to happen, no. That it was not in fact going to be the case that all carers would have it done or that suitable vaccinated carers would come forward to replace them.

But unfortunately, too many people were unable to separate what they thought should happen from what it was clear would actually happen.

I think the first lockdown was necessary but some of the "rules" were ridiculous, and local councils and police made a fool of themselves in the way they behaved. It was known from close to the outset that the virus didn't spread outside as it would inside and the hysteria about people being in parks was completely over the top.

And of course, as ever, the rules had a disproportionate effect on women - eg not being able to exercise with someone outside your household. The restrictions on distance in Ireland and some parts of the UK (and overseas) were silly too - as if the virus knew to jump on you if you cycled 6km away from home rather than 4!

Fortunately DH and I weren't badly affected by lockdown, it was harder on ds who was at sixth form and really enjoying it. But he seems to be ok, I haven't really noticed any effects on his mental health. I think we were lucky.

@lieselotte

local councils and police made a fool of themselves in the way they behaved

It wasn't just councils and police. The head of our village primary school was bonkers - on the day the school had to close at the start of the first lockdown, she held a "whole school" assembly in the school hall, all pupils, all staff, as many parents as possible, all crammed into a tiny assembly hall, standing room only.

Then, the following Monday after the weekend, she was stood at the school gate not letting anyone in who she deemed "unworthy", i.e. questionning that parents were genuinely "essential" workers with no one else to care for their children before letting the kids through the gate! Not even letting parents into the school grounds (open air), making them queue for interrogation on the pavement outside!

What kind of clown thought that was sensible given covid and the whole point of lockdowns being to keep people separate and out of crowded indoor areas? And then just two days later being some jobsworth nazi not letting anyone in the school playground (outdoor) unless she deemed them worthy?

She just didn't think it through did she? Inevitably, our village suffered a massive hike in covid infections in the couple of weeks afterwards!

And of course, as ever, the rules had a disproportionate effect on women - eg not being able to exercise with someone outside your household.

Yes. I wrote to our council who had threatened to turn off the lighting on the promenade to say please don't as it is the safest place for women to walk through winter when it's dark so early.
As an aside, the miles of beach were taped off but we could walk on the prom where there was far less space to spread out.

Lack of toilets were also more of an issue for women than for men.

,

We just didn't want to kill our residents or make them ill which seems perfectly reasonable to me. We don't turn up at work if we have D&V or flu for the same reason. If you don't care about the welfare of the people you are looking after then I don't think you should be a carer.

Which is unfortunately not a belief we as a society were able to afford. It would've been nice to have options, wouldn't it? But what actually happened is some of them did indeed decide to not be carers, we weren't able to replace them, the problems in the care sector continued to worsen and thus the NHS became even more fucked.

Because all this was obvious well in advance, it was a terrible policy and we now collectively pay the price.

Surely “options” should work both ways. Vulnerable people should have the option not to be in close contact with someone with an infectious disease, ans residents/patients were a captive audience with no choices and hence needed protection.

'Should' doesn't create a suitable supply of vaccinated care workers.

Governments cannot make public health policy decisions based on how they think people ought to behave. They can only choose from the available options, and they were told clearly in 2021 that their choices did not include the existing workforce all getting vaccinated.

As opposed to the vulnerable paying the price and dying? Nice.

I know two people who left care jobs, not in the home where I worked, they are both back in care jobs now. I suspect lots are but we have an ageing population, we lost carers from the EU so what we need to do is make the job more attractive (better pay and conditions for a start) ensure more recruitment from abroad. What we don't need to do is compromise safety standards for some of the most vulnerable people in society.

Exactly.

They could have let the care workers from the EU back in. There are lots of people who would come here and be carers and the ones I have worked with have been very high calibre.

How exactly are vulnerable people helped by the recruitment crisis in care getting worse? Do you think no carer is preferable to an unvaccinated one? This was the problem at the time too, people refusing to accept that their moral stance wasn't going to create vaccinated carers. As indeed it didn't. People just left.

In terms of the EU, I'm not sure the UK was an especially attractive proposition for workers in 2021. Brexit certainly also exacerbated the shortage of carers, but that's all the more reason not to do something else to make it even worse. I'm a remainer so I don't think we ought to have left in the first place, but that was a done deal by the time this policy was implemented.