Thread 12 - TalkLair: “I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.”

[Kucinghitam]

(Previous thread 11).

The days are gradually growing longer, but the worst of the winter weather is not yet behind us. In the TalkLair, we remain hunkered down keeping cosy and warm. The hearth is glowing, the walls covered in dubious artwork, books by non-approved authors line the shelves, rugs are down on the floors (and assorted pets curled up on them).

We just won’t mention the gnawed bones of our prey over there in the corner of the cave…

I also pulled some weeds out of a couple of pots today. I really need to get out into the garden and sort it out though. I haven’t got round to pruning roses yet and they’re in bud already (mind a couple have flowered on and off through the winter).

I texted our confrere angelico (fenders) this morning, as I'd not seen him around for a while. He is OK, says he lost his log-in for MN, but is taking a break from SM anyway. Anyway, he says, do give my best to the MN crew.

Greetings from me to angelico, glad he's okay and glad you got in touch with him, duc.

Rant follows. Today I went to an exhibition at the Portland Museum of Art, one they do every year, called something like "In bloom", where they get local florists to make floral arrangements in relation to some of the paintings. It's always well worth seeing and true to form was very enjoyable, though there seemed to me to be fewer flowers than previous years.

However, I noticed that the museum had rewritten all their labels to put a political spin on the paintings. For example, in a Joshua Reynolds portrait of a little girl the label talked about who she was (daughter of an aristocrat of course because who else could have afforded to have Reynolds paint his kid's portrait?) and how she was wearing a silk dress and that was reflective of the oppression endured by the people working for her parents. Another one showing a very idealized picture of the Maine coast (bore little resemblance to be honest but was clearly an 18th century picture showing white people in 18th century dress and sailing ships out on the bay, and one tiny figure who was probably a farmer or a slave - not really clear which) and the whole label was about white colonialism and oppression because no native Americans were shown in this picture.

What got to me in the end was partly the sheer relentlessness of all these labels, and how they were saying nothing that anybody with half an education didn't already know. The second painting I mentioned above had a rack of cards next to it and people were invited to comment on the picture, and most of the comments took this ultra political view of them.

I walked away thinking that surely to goodness this isn't the only thing we want to take from art? Not that it isn't true but that it isn't the only thing worth commenting on about a work of art. Do we expect people in the past to paint from a modern sensibility? Are we supposed to discard all past works that spring from oppression? If so maybe we should discard any pictures of women before the 20th century because women of all varieties were oppressed then (and continue to be, depending where you live). Should we discard all ancient Greek and Roman statues because they were slave owners? Is there a statute of limitations on oppression?

Museum labelling can be really annoying. Whether it’s labouring the point about historical context or just pretentious art speak, I am generally resentful of being told what to think.

I generally dislike labelling in art galleries, where (usually) all I want to know is "Who made it?" and "What is it called?" - I'm there to form my own opinions about the art, not be told what to think. Because it's fucking art.

OTOH I think museums need detailed and clear labelling with suitable explanations of the exhibits. Which is different from labelling based entirely on the trendy politics of the time/place, with the aim of telling the audience what to think.

Galleries: who, when, where. A bit of interesting trivia is good - the buildings in the background were the only ones to survive the Great Fire, the artist made all her own paints to original medieval recipes, the fish on the table is from a species that's now extinct, that sort of thing.

Museums: what (in detail - use, materials, any traces of decoration or residue, how it was made), where, when (both made and found), and some historical context but not political commentary.

Agreed.

By the way if anyone is near London, the Sargent and Fashion exhibition at the Tate is lovely. I'd expected to love the clothes that he painted, but I was actually more drawn to the faces. He managed to give almost every sitters so much character in their face it is remarkable. Plus nice clothes, and a few examples of the actual garments in the paintings.

I nearly went completely postal in the British Museum at the Stonehenge exhibition when a label on some grave goods speculated about the gender identity of the person buried there. The person I went with said afterwards, "Oh yes, I saw that, and I was half waiting for you to bellow with rage..."

I'm going to the Sargent and Fashion exhibition either late next month or in May and can't wait.

We have a couple of Sargent paintings in our art museum and they are beautiful. I do like abstract art as well but what I respond to is the mastery of the techniques and media used. I don't get on well with concept art - I saw one today which was half a dozen glass containers of different long and narrow shapes - quite possibly hand blown, which was the interesting bit - arranged on a broken and stained wooden pallet. Once seen, almost instantly forgotten, whereas the Sargent portraits will stay with me. Anyone else remember the Turner prize winner "Lights going on, lights going off"? Really?

I actually rather loved Martin Creed’s lights going on and off but I think my favourite work of his is probably the one for lift and choir in the Festival Hall (and elsewhere, I know there’s one in the Van Abbemuseum in Eindhoven). One of the things I really enjoyed about the lights going on and off was watching people trying to read the wall text and being thwarted by the lights going off so sometimes I’m all in favour of long wall texts!

I like Sargent's art, and I agree with what everyone has said about his technique and the way he captures the subjects' faces. Generally, I like painted things.

Mostly I'm not overkeen on the modern installations. It depends.

When DDs were about 7, one weekend we visited the Hepworth and there was a floor installation which was just a large circle of a single layer of beautiful black marbles. (Really rather nice to just gaze at, and as I didn't bother to read the blurb on the label I have no idea what it signified.)

Another family with a toddler came into the room, who ran across the floor in great excitement, toppled over and careened straight into the artwork. Marbles shooting everywhere. I honestly wish to god that I'd videoed it, because it was epic. DDs were utterly delighted

The family basically scarpered, whilst the unfortunate gallery guard (or whatever they're called) stood there stunned. A crowd of increasingly senior museum staff gathered in response to his radio distress call, clearly debating what to do about reassembling the Art. (If it was me, I'd just have swept all the marbles back into a circle - but I guess the arrangement might not have been identical to the original Vision).

The marble chaos sounds brilliant @Kucinghitam

Just watched this short vid about slime moulds and am very impressed.

I love slime moulds, years ago my PhD supervisor collaborated with another group looking at how Dictyostelium discoideum "communicates" : the amazing thing is how the whole shebang of apparently intelligent problem-solving behaviour is basically coordinated by pulses of chemical gradients of a single, quite simple, molecule (cAMP).

I read a brilliant book about lobsters when we were researching the QI book of Animal Ignorance and learned how lobsters communicate chemically by peeing in each other's faces (their bladders are up behind their heads). Fascinating creatures. And tasty,

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · Today 11:35

Just watched this short vid about slime moulds and am very impressed.

They are absolutely amazing, I'd love to see one in the wild.

This morning, I saw several cherry trees in full blossom and a magnolia; I expect it's because of the few warm days we had last week and this week. But magnolia!

My pear and apple are in bud, but that's it so far.

I love magnolia! There’s one in a front garden over the road (and a couple of bigger ones round the corner but I can’t see those from here). It’s been out for a couple of weeks at least and a lot of the petals are down now. Still gorgeous though.

There's a few whoppers (grandiflora) in the roads round me, and also next door but one has a gorgeous red camellia hedge. We have a magnolia stellata in the front garden, but it's a bit spindly and I really ought to prune it a bit.

They are absolutely amazing, I'd love to see one in the wild.

@SinnerBoy I've been hoping to come across some for years. It would be so interesting to play with it.

I saw some daffodils poking up buds a couple of days ago, which is very early for Maine (normally April before we see them) but yesterday we had some snow and some very icy winds, and temperatures below freezing (down to 27F in what I learned recently can be called freedom heat units to distinguish them from the socialist European Celsius units - that was intended as joke by the person saying it though, not some crazy MAGA person).

Arf at "freedom heat units". I have a Finnish friend who insists on using the Kelvin scale, possibly because at this time of year the average low is around minus 10C and 263K sounds a lot warmer. Or (more likely) just to confuse people?

The daffs were mostly out in mid-February here; I really need to dead head them. I realised yesterday that the tulips I planted in a stupid place (they really can’t be seen from the house or most of the garden even though it’s not a big garden at all) are almost finished flowering. I’m sad to have missed those as I usually cut them to rescue them from their behind the bench obscurity.

Snoop is currently in the air on the way to India and it all sort of got the better of me this morning on the way to radiotherapy. There was crying before treatment, after treatment with my consultant and dietician. I then cried when they had the "here is the Princess of Wales" thing which shocked me but I've also cried watching The Great British Menu, so I think I'm just very, very teary today. I'm going to miss Snoop a lot and if I'd been an utter bastard I'd have begged her not to go because it's much harder without her but thankfully my bastardry is not utter.

Yesterday was a weird one. I had a feeding tube put in yesterday morning and it's odd. I can feel it at the back of my throat and I wish it wasn't there but for roughly the next month I need it so what can you do. I spent the rest of the day falling asleep, waking up, falling asleep again. I woke up in my armchair at about 2am and thought, shit my legs are cold I need to go to bed. I woke up again at nearly 5am and then finally got up, peed which was urgent and the only thing that got my cold legs up and sort of pinballed my way to bed. Francis was a dude and got nearly on top of me in the bed which was handy because I was cold.

So, that's been me.

Aw, @MouseMinge - I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. How long is Snoop away for?

I found the Princess of Wales video really quite upsetting, because nobody should have been forced into that at this point - or ever, frankly. If I wielded the MN ban-hammer, quite a large number of users would be gone. And MN is the least of it.

Francis is a star, though. Some cats are just really, really good at the empathy stuff. And of course, if it fails, they know they can just eat you.