Thread 12 - TalkLair: “I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.”

[Kucinghitam]

(Previous thread 11).

The days are gradually growing longer, but the worst of the winter weather is not yet behind us. In the TalkLair, we remain hunkered down keeping cosy and warm. The hearth is glowing, the walls covered in dubious artwork, books by non-approved authors line the shelves, rugs are down on the floors (and assorted pets curled up on them).

We just won’t mention the gnawed bones of our prey over there in the corner of the cave…

I did get my shower! It's not connected to the immersion heater so I was safe to have that. To be fair even if it had been connected there was a huge possibility that I'd have still done it because I was so in need of one, my selfish excuse would have been that the damage had already been done. Thankfully, I didn't have to test my clearly very dodgy moral compass. Cancer does seem to be making me more selfish, I wouldn't normally consider anything like that at all.

Goodness @MouseMinge, what an absolute 'mare! I am glad you at least got your shower though.

Oh, and just catching up to say that I'm firmly "table first", if there's more than one person in the group. (Except places where you are clearly directed to buy the food first, e.g. school/university dining halls).

Crosses Kuc off christmas card list and puts their name in the wrongmo file.

Weeps bitterly

If the tables are numbered, table first (because they'll ask for the number when you order). Otherwise, food first.

I'm pretending I haven't read the tales of being a Very Bad Mouse and ignoring bits of medical equipment falling out. But I hope the immersion leak is easily fixed.

If I'm with someone else I'll reserve a table, because I use a walking stick and standing for any length of time is very uncomfortable for me. If I'm on my own, obviously, I can't, but I will ask to use an empty seat at a half full table. I'm just going to drink my tea and read. It's usually fine.

It seems illogical to me to get food and then walk around with a tray of food/drink, hoping a table becomes available. Also seems illogical to have the entire party cluttering up the queue.

FWIW in SE Asia when you go to a food court or hawker centre or kopi tiam, you definitely bagsy a table first before going off to order from the various stalls. Traditionally there wouldn't be table numbers in a kopi tiam; the hawker will just ask you where you are sitting and you point "over there" and they just remember what you look like! It's more common these days to have table numbers.

In really safe places like Singapore, people often reserve their table by leaving their phones/bags unattended on it

I too am a table first person. I don’t want to order something and then not be able to sit down, so I will always sort the table first then the order. If there is no suitable seating then I’ll go somewhere else or not bother. Traipsing round carrying a tray trying to pounce and jostle for tables makes the whole experience so stressful it would negate the benefit of the hot (rapidly cooling) drink. But then I’m pretty indifferent towards the drink itself, the point of going to a cafe is a sit down, pause and reset before the next thing, whatever it is. It never occurred to me that this might be considered rude any more than it would be if the person who chose to go straight to the counter took the last slice of cake or whatever. It’s just a case of what each customer prioritises in the cafe visit.

Once at a kopi tiam in my hometown, (speaking in Hokkien not English) I ordered something from a stall and in pointing out where our table was, I added "Where the white guy (DH) is sitting." The hawker lady admonished me saying that I shouldn't say "the white guy" and instead approved when I corrected myself to "the English guy"

What if he'd been Belgian or Canadian? Not like she could have known his nationality, she'd have been looking out for the white dude regardless!

The SE Asian system sounds logical to me, and I’d also put in a word for the German system where service is much more frequently at the table rather than the counter. Having worked in such a cafe, it is very efficient. More walking (better for me than standing) but easier to deal with one group at a time rather than have people queuing irritably.

And I’ve just realised I used the “German efficiency” cliche. Sorry. (In this case accurate though)

@MouseMinge I was thinking of you when that piece came up on Newsnight but thank goodness you’re having a good experience!

MouseMinge

Thanks for your diagrams, they were informative; it's true, every day's a school day on MN! I'm glad that you're doing so much better and hope you're soon leaping about, in your new, larger clothes.

No idea what it's like now but when we were first in Taiwan, we were taken to a nice restaurant and the method was that if a group appeared to be coming to the end of their meal, the people who wanted the table would stand waiting behind their chairs. It felt rather unnerving to begin with.

Oh, that's completely normal!

See, I'd really hate that!

I wouldn't mind if I understood that it was the norm.

Oh, that's completely normal!

I'm quite surprised it's still a thing, as it felt really weird having people watch every mouthful you took, but then it was completely new to us at the time.

That sounds quite extreme but loitering near a table of people who like like they’re getting ready to leave is pretty common here and it’s just a more assertive version of that really. But yes, I’d mostly hate it.

Groups will even disperse their representatives around the restaurant to strategically position themselves at several potential tables! Then when one table finishes, the nearest person will pounce and plonk themselves down, whilst frantically signalling their compatriots.

A bit like vultures watching for the wounded wildebeest to collapse...

(Children are particularly useful for the task because they're small and fast-moving.)

I've not hovered in a cafe but we used to do it all the time in pubs. You'd be having your drink with one trying to be stealthy as you looked around the pub for any group with a table who looked like they might be about to finish. The thing was a lot of people were doing the same thing and it was a case of being the quickest to notice and then move like a whippet to get to the table before some other bastard beat you too it. I was good at the stealth and the speed. I think it came from my mad British Bulldog skillz.

Yes, re the vultures, people hovering like that did feel like being prey!

All this talk of crowded places and people hovering over you is giving me the fear. I used to love a crowded pub when I was younger but as the years have gone on I realise I actively dislike such places. I enjoy gigs occasionally but only if I can stand at the back.

I feel the same, @Dotellhimpike . I don't mind going to my local for the monthly Wednesday music quiz when it's quite crowded but not crowded like the pubs I went to when I was younger. Funnily enough, when I was posting about snatching tables in pubs I was thinking about how crowded they were and it gave me a very uncomfortable feeling of being trapped. It's not just the numbers, it's the noise. I have tinnitus now and can't function in that level of noise.