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UK's strictest Headmistress taken to school over banning prayers in the playground

592 replies

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 07:15

Top London school taken to high court over prayer ban | London | The Guardian

I don't believe that schools should have a compulsory act of worship.
However - it seems that there has been a ban on prayer rituals on the premises.

"The prayer policy was introduced in March last year by the school’s founder, Katharine Birbalsingh – frequently described as Britain’s strictest headteacher – when the school found itself the target of abuse and harassment after pupils were seen praying in the school playground by passersby. About 30 students took part, some kneeling on their blazers as they were not permitted to bring in prayer mats, the court heard.
Before these events, the court heard that prayers were not expressly banned at Michaela, though it had no dedicated prayer room. The new policy had the “practical effect of only preventing Muslims from praying because their prayer by nature has a ritualised nature rather than being internal”, the court heard.
The pupil’s lawyer said it was in effect “a ban uniquely on Muslim prayer”, stopping pupils praying “at a time as required by Islam”. In contrast, it would not, she said, prevent a Christian child sitting quietly in the corner of the playground from praying"

I think it seems that prayer mats were banned - and I think it seems they were banned from kneeling on blazers.

If someone wants to pray in the playground voluntarily, then they should be able to. It's not an act of compulsory worship.

I can see why they wanted this kept quiet.

Top London school taken to high court over prayer ban

Michaela community school, run by ‘Britain’s toughest headteacher’, Katharine Birbalsingh, introduced ban last March

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/16/london-school-high-court-prayer-ban

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cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 21:00

I wonder what she thinks of the values of some of the people who have posted on Twitter in support of her banning Muslim children from praying in the playground?

OP posts:
sammyvine · 17/01/2024 21:23

I have always wondered what KB's end goal is
I have never seen a teacher so starved for attention

She is literally another Katie Hopkins.

BettyBakesCakes · 17/01/2024 21:25

sprigatito · 17/01/2024 17:48

This woman is not a serious educator. She has contributed nothing of value to the nation's pedagogical understanding, in fact she has set the culture in schools back by decades and actively exacerbated the mental health crisis in young people. Sadly she is emblematic of the kind of scum that rises to the top in education at the moment - a posturing, loudmouthed gnashing narcissist with no empathy and no passion beyond the advancement of her own career. Everything she does is a cheap attention-seeking stunt.

Agree.

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 21:32

Katharine Birbalsingh defends ban on school prayers in high court | Schools | The Guardian

She talks about harassment other Muslim children were getting and it led to poor behaviour in a school famed for its discipline.

So instead of finding a compromise, she banned it.

"But the governing body had to take the decision to stop prayer rituals when some people started them, against a backdrop of events including violence, intimidation and appalling racial harassment of our teachers. Our decision restored calm and order to the school"

The playground sounds depressing

"Coppel said the head, who founded Michaela in 2014, was dedicated to promoting social cohesion in the school. To that end, pupils eat at a “family lunch”, food is vegetarian so that it is acceptable to everyone regardless of faith, and teachers supervise “guided” socialisation in the playground to ensure that groups of children mix."

Katharine Birbalsingh defends ban on school prayers in high court

Headteacher of London school Michaela says policy is vital to ensure ‘children of all races and religions can thrive’

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/jan/17/london-headteacher-defends-school-prayer-ban-high-court

OP posts:
Pythag · 17/01/2024 21:38

Syndulla · 17/01/2024 09:37

The more I hear about that woman the more I'm convinced that she shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any child.

Don’t be narrow-minded. She has done a huge amount for disadvantaged children and we should really admire her for that.

Pythag · 17/01/2024 21:41

sprigatito · 17/01/2024 17:48

This woman is not a serious educator. She has contributed nothing of value to the nation's pedagogical understanding, in fact she has set the culture in schools back by decades and actively exacerbated the mental health crisis in young people. Sadly she is emblematic of the kind of scum that rises to the top in education at the moment - a posturing, loudmouthed gnashing narcissist with no empathy and no passion beyond the advancement of her own career. Everything she does is a cheap attention-seeking stunt.

She is a serious educator. Look at the outstanding P8 results of her school. She is giving great educational opportunities to deprived children. No wonder parents want to send their children to her school.

MCOut · 17/01/2024 21:48

I truly hate the way that she uses the ethnic diversity of her school as part of her conservative posturing. This is absolutely ridiculous, there should be no reason the kids shouldn’t have a prayer room.

That being said, I do firmly believe that school should be school and not a social club. Her methods work, the discipline is good for the kids and while I don’t always like the subtext of what she says the outcomes are most important here.

GrammarTeacher · 17/01/2024 22:06

There are other ways of getting those outcomes. The curriculum they offer is very limited and if any other school did it you can bet it would cost them outstanding in OFSTED. There is nothing 'broad and balanced' about it.
And there are GCSE Shakespeare options that don't include ghosts so it really isn't a big deal to accommodate that. I've changed texts to accommodate all manner of needs in the past. You choose the right text for the group in front of you.

sammyvine · 17/01/2024 22:31

Pythag · 17/01/2024 21:41

She is a serious educator. Look at the outstanding P8 results of her school. She is giving great educational opportunities to deprived children. No wonder parents want to send their children to her school.

Do you work at her school? Is she paying you extra to defend her online?

Thecatmaster · 17/01/2024 22:49

Her logic seemed to be that the praying children attracted negative attention from public, therefore it was a child safety issue. But surely that is punishing the victims? A better approach would have been to ensure that they felt and were safe and that the playground was screened. Ironically now the school is being targeted by extreme Muslims and she has stirred up more issues. It's a very ill thought out rule on her behalf and discriminatory. I can't see how she can win the case and then the tables will turn on her.

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 22:55

Thecatmaster · 17/01/2024 22:49

Her logic seemed to be that the praying children attracted negative attention from public, therefore it was a child safety issue. But surely that is punishing the victims? A better approach would have been to ensure that they felt and were safe and that the playground was screened. Ironically now the school is being targeted by extreme Muslims and she has stirred up more issues. It's a very ill thought out rule on her behalf and discriminatory. I can't see how she can win the case and then the tables will turn on her.

From her twitter posts, she seems to be the kind of person who is very sure of herself and who will not back down. She will defend her position - no matter how she comes across.

That must take a certain personality of staff to work there.

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Anisette · 17/01/2024 23:41

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 21:00

I wonder what she thinks of the values of some of the people who have posted on Twitter in support of her banning Muslim children from praying in the playground?

The thicker section of her supporters all seem to be convinced that the Muslim in question was demanding to be allowed to go out of lessons in order to pray. I guess they have to make the facts up in order to validate their prejudices.

Anisette · 17/01/2024 23:43

Pythag · 17/01/2024 21:41

She is a serious educator. Look at the outstanding P8 results of her school. She is giving great educational opportunities to deprived children. No wonder parents want to send their children to her school.

Education is an awful lot more than P8 results.

Anisette · 17/01/2024 23:46

The reports about the court action seemed to be saying that her defence is that she is not discriminating because she doesn't allow any child of any religion to pray. That doesn't work, of course, because Islam is the only religion where followers are adversely affected as they believe in the need to pray at set times.

That apart, I struggle to believe that she really does ban prayer for everyone. There is still the requirement for an act of collective worship, and would she really punish a child who was found to be offering up a quick prayer in the corner of the room every morning before registration?

Reugny · 18/01/2024 00:21

She talks about harassment other Muslim children were getting and it led to poor behaviour in a school famed for its discipline.

As the pupils of the school are "highly disciplined" if there was a multi-faith pray room I'm sure there wouldn't have been that problem.

Reugny · 18/01/2024 00:29

would she really punish a child who was found to be offering up a quick prayer in the corner of the room every morning before registration?

Or the child who is quiet and motionless/mumbles a few words for some minutes before eating the "family lunch"?

Or the child who mouths a few words before crossing themselves?

There were Christians like that at my secondary school.

mamma65432 · 18/01/2024 01:26

None of the defence response has been published only the prosecution, so perhaps let's wait until the court has finished?

These are complex issues.

mamma65432 · 18/01/2024 01:39

Anisette · 17/01/2024 23:46

The reports about the court action seemed to be saying that her defence is that she is not discriminating because she doesn't allow any child of any religion to pray. That doesn't work, of course, because Islam is the only religion where followers are adversely affected as they believe in the need to pray at set times.

That apart, I struggle to believe that she really does ban prayer for everyone. There is still the requirement for an act of collective worship, and would she really punish a child who was found to be offering up a quick prayer in the corner of the room every morning before registration?

The parents sign up knowing it's secular.

I've personally known teenage muslims forced at 16 into arranged marriages against their will in England - why is no-one taking that to Court and reporting it in the Sun?

Coyoacan · 18/01/2024 02:12

I've personally known teenage muslims forced at 16 into arranged marriages against their will in England

That is a crime and forbidden by the Quran. So I don't think it is very relevant to the thread.

cakeorwine · 18/01/2024 04:10

Reugny · 18/01/2024 00:21

She talks about harassment other Muslim children were getting and it led to poor behaviour in a school famed for its discipline.

As the pupils of the school are "highly disciplined" if there was a multi-faith pray room I'm sure there wouldn't have been that problem.

It does expose the "happy family" myth of the school if pupils can't be trusted to walk around school and to treat each other with respect.

Apparently people are free to visit the school to see this happy atmosphere. Clearly it's not as happy as all that

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cakeorwine · 18/01/2024 04:12

mamma65432 · 18/01/2024 01:39

The parents sign up knowing it's secular.

I've personally known teenage muslims forced at 16 into arranged marriages against their will in England - why is no-one taking that to Court and reporting it in the Sun?

Secular means there is no "school faith" - but State schools are supposed to have an act of collective worship - even though many don't.

Secular should not mean that people aren't allowed to carry out aspects of their faith that are important to them - as long as it doesn't impact on their learning / the school.

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Simonjt · 18/01/2024 05:18

mamma65432 · 17/01/2024 13:37

What with her two outstanding ofsted reports and best academic marks / progress 8 for a non-selective state school in the UK. What with all those happy children that countless visitors have reported seeing via the school's open door policy to children. Have you visited?

Happy children?

The rugby team I used to play for were invited to do some talks for GCSE biology, it was during their classes so small groups of 30. In each one there was a teacher and member of SLT. I was due to do three sessions. If a child wasn’t looking me in the eye and they were caught the teacher or member of SLT would get very close to their face, shout at them and give them detention. If they’re happy to behave like that in front of a visitor, how are they behaving behind closed doors. It was awful so I left, I wasn’t the only colleague who left early due to how the children were being treated.

GrammarTeacher · 18/01/2024 06:29

mamma65432 · 18/01/2024 01:26

None of the defence response has been published only the prosecution, so perhaps let's wait until the court has finished?

These are complex issues.

She's issued a statement herself

Sirzy · 18/01/2024 07:08

mamma65432 · 18/01/2024 01:26

None of the defence response has been published only the prosecution, so perhaps let's wait until the court has finished?

These are complex issues.

Providing a space for children who want to worship during break times really shouldn’t be a compelx issues. it’s about as basic as they come.

Deathbyathousandcats · 18/01/2024 07:40

Simonjt · 18/01/2024 05:18

Happy children?

The rugby team I used to play for were invited to do some talks for GCSE biology, it was during their classes so small groups of 30. In each one there was a teacher and member of SLT. I was due to do three sessions. If a child wasn’t looking me in the eye and they were caught the teacher or member of SLT would get very close to their face, shout at them and give them detention. If they’re happy to behave like that in front of a visitor, how are they behaving behind closed doors. It was awful so I left, I wasn’t the only colleague who left early due to how the children were being treated.

Wow, that’s some regime. It’s sounds more like Full Metal Jacket than a functional school.

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