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UK's strictest Headmistress taken to school over banning prayers in the playground

592 replies

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 07:15

Top London school taken to high court over prayer ban | London | The Guardian

I don't believe that schools should have a compulsory act of worship.
However - it seems that there has been a ban on prayer rituals on the premises.

"The prayer policy was introduced in March last year by the school’s founder, Katharine Birbalsingh – frequently described as Britain’s strictest headteacher – when the school found itself the target of abuse and harassment after pupils were seen praying in the school playground by passersby. About 30 students took part, some kneeling on their blazers as they were not permitted to bring in prayer mats, the court heard.
Before these events, the court heard that prayers were not expressly banned at Michaela, though it had no dedicated prayer room. The new policy had the “practical effect of only preventing Muslims from praying because their prayer by nature has a ritualised nature rather than being internal”, the court heard.
The pupil’s lawyer said it was in effect “a ban uniquely on Muslim prayer”, stopping pupils praying “at a time as required by Islam”. In contrast, it would not, she said, prevent a Christian child sitting quietly in the corner of the playground from praying"

I think it seems that prayer mats were banned - and I think it seems they were banned from kneeling on blazers.

If someone wants to pray in the playground voluntarily, then they should be able to. It's not an act of compulsory worship.

I can see why they wanted this kept quiet.

Top London school taken to high court over prayer ban

Michaela community school, run by ‘Britain’s toughest headteacher’, Katharine Birbalsingh, introduced ban last March

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/16/london-school-high-court-prayer-ban

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RosemaryDill · 17/01/2024 14:48

KnittedCardi · 17/01/2024 11:45

Against the general opinion here, I am opposed to any religious ritual in schools. State and religion should be secular, that includes schools. Pupils should leave their religion at the gates.

We are a majority secular society, notionally Christian, but it is way overdue that we no longer have religion in our state services.

Absolutely agree. Schools should be free from religion in any shape or form.

GrammarTeacher · 17/01/2024 14:50

There's actually no such thing as a non-religious school in England. All schools are required to have some form of daily 'worship'. It's usually described as having a broadly Christian ethos. It goes back to the foundations of state education

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 17/01/2024 15:04

Surely any class room would do?
It seems a step backwards in term of inclusivity to me.

therealcookiemonster · 17/01/2024 15:11

@TooBigForMyBoots following GB news's example I am going to change my name to "nocookies", then people will have to stop blaming me for the missing cookies.

nationallampoons · 17/01/2024 15:19

Parents knew the rules when they signed up to the school 🤷🏻‍♀️

Anisette · 17/01/2024 15:21

nationallampoons · 17/01/2024 15:19

Parents knew the rules when they signed up to the school 🤷🏻‍♀️

According to Birbalsingh, they were told there was no indoor space for prayer before they signed up. She doesn't suggest that they wer told they couldn't pray anywhere else on the school premises.

Reugny · 17/01/2024 15:22

nationallampoons · 17/01/2024 15:19

Parents knew the rules when they signed up to the school 🤷🏻‍♀️

That is always said on every thread where schools show their bigotry whether it involves race or religion.

nationallampoons · 17/01/2024 15:24

@Reugny now it's my turn to say it

Joonio · 17/01/2024 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Reugny · 17/01/2024 15:31

Anisette · 17/01/2024 14:44

Oh dear, if that's correct it directly contradicts what Birbalsingh said. Quote:

"Because of our restrictive building combined with our strict ethos that does not allow children to wander around the building unsupervised, we cannot have a prayer room"

In this instance I would actually believe Birbalsingh, not least because the legal action would have no foundation if an indoor space was being provided.

Yet the kids in that school are supposed to be disciplined and well behaved yet they can't walk to and from a pray room on their own?

GrammarTeacher · 17/01/2024 15:32

There is no such thing as a secular state school in England. The reports about threats doesn't say where they come from. And given some reports were of people throwing things at the students it is unlikely that it was the Muslim community!

therealcookiemonster · 17/01/2024 15:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

the bomb threats were made towards the Muslim students who are children.
everyone should be free to practice their values. wanting to practice your faith does not classify as wanting 'special treatment'

do you realise how offensive your statement is to Muslims such as myself who are British, individuals? I have no issues with others celebrating their religion (a view shared by the vast majority of muslims) why do you have an issue with me and others living my life peacefully?

mollycod · 17/01/2024 15:50

Why not just have a room students can use to pray in, seems draconian to ban it.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/01/2024 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Do you have a link?

KnittedCardi · 17/01/2024 16:05

Moonwatcher1234 · 17/01/2024 14:00

@KnittedCardi has such delusions of grandeur that they feel prayers should not be “required” during the school day and centuries of religious practice should be overturned to accommodate their hurty feelings on this point.

This is such a weird reply. Sorry, it's nothing to do with feelings or delusions of grandeur. I just think we actually should move on from centuries old religious dogma and doctrine. Times change, things evolve. But, there you go. Agree to disagree.

Anisette · 17/01/2024 16:24

Reugny · 17/01/2024 15:31

Yet the kids in that school are supposed to be disciplined and well behaved yet they can't walk to and from a pray room on their own?

Apparently not.

Does that mean they don't have any indoor activities/clubs during break periods? God forbid a pupil should be allowed to get herself to chess, sewing or carpentry club unsupervised.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/01/2024 17:30

@Joonio do you have a link?

Coyoacan · 17/01/2024 17:38

therealcookiemonster · 17/01/2024 10:46

awww are you going to call me antisemitic for saying Muslim and Jewish children are all the same and deserve equal rights to practice their religion as they see fit? how lovely.

please explain how my statement is racist?

if you hate Muslims, that's fine. go your merry way. be careful you don't bump into any on the street, you might catch it.

Whao. I get the impression that there's been a misunderstanding. Of course every religious group should have the freedom to pray

sprigatito · 17/01/2024 17:48

This woman is not a serious educator. She has contributed nothing of value to the nation's pedagogical understanding, in fact she has set the culture in schools back by decades and actively exacerbated the mental health crisis in young people. Sadly she is emblematic of the kind of scum that rises to the top in education at the moment - a posturing, loudmouthed gnashing narcissist with no empathy and no passion beyond the advancement of her own career. Everything she does is a cheap attention-seeking stunt.

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 18:04

Lots of comments.
Prayer such as this is important to people - and steps should be taken so it can be fitted into the school day without causing disruption.

As has been said, there is in some schools an act of collective worship - so there are children who do get their daily prayers in. (as well as many who have to be there). There are those children who do want to pray in their own way - and school should try to accommodate them as other schools do.

I guess there are rooms available for clubs - as someone said. So these well behaved pupils should be able to walk to a room for prayer.

Unless the perfect behaviour isn't as perfect as it is said to be and pupils need constant reminding on how to behave and can't be trusted to walk sensibly to a supervised room.

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Gooseysgirl · 17/01/2024 18:05

sprigatito · 17/01/2024 17:48

This woman is not a serious educator. She has contributed nothing of value to the nation's pedagogical understanding, in fact she has set the culture in schools back by decades and actively exacerbated the mental health crisis in young people. Sadly she is emblematic of the kind of scum that rises to the top in education at the moment - a posturing, loudmouthed gnashing narcissist with no empathy and no passion beyond the advancement of her own career. Everything she does is a cheap attention-seeking stunt.

I couldn't agree more 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

ilovebreadsauce · 17/01/2024 18:35

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/01/2024 14:44

How did I know it was GB News.🙄 As entertaining as GBN is, it is not a News channel and it's shit at facts, preferring misinformation and misrepresentation.

Don't be fooled by the name @Meceme.

I thought Julia HB was on Talk Radio?

Coyoacan · 17/01/2024 19:44

Another one glad to see so much support for the Muslim children.

And as has already been said, praying is an awful lot better than taking drugs or being violent

Citrusandginger · 17/01/2024 20:46

I'm usually strongly in favour of keeping religion away from schools but after reading an article in the Times I'm now firmly team sky fairy.

Katharine Birbalsingh, the founder and head of Michaela Community School in Wembley, northwest London, said that every religious group must “make sacrifices for the sake of the whole” if multiculturalism is to succeed.

What a ridiculous woman.

cakeorwine · 17/01/2024 20:57

She has talked about how some families from religions have objected to certain texts, how they don't want revision lessons on a Sunday" and how Muslim parents sign up knowing there is no prayer room.

I think there's a difference between objecting to something in a lesson versus being able to carry out a prayer if need be. It does not harm anyone to be able to pray in a room. They are not missing out on learning unlike if say they objected to a text.

She has said that she will never separate children according to race or religion - but this is not forcibly separating children. This is giving them an opportunity to pray. Not telling Muslim children they have to be separate.

It is surprising that their strict ethos does not allow children to walk around school unsupervised. How do they get to clubs? I thought their behaviour was so good that they do not need to constantly enforce this strict ethos.

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