Why vaginal birth?

[SantaSusan]

Inspired by another thread. I'm really interested to understand the reasons for most women opting for a vaginal birth.

Disclaimer: I really, really want this thread to be a nice discussion to share views. I'd hate for this to descend into a judgy or unkind thread! Obviously, however anyone chooses to give birth is their choice alone. And as long as your precious little bundle arrives safely at the end, then who cares how they got there!?

I ended up with an elective. I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd have anything but a vaginal birth. However, for reasons I won't go into, it was decided during my pregnancy that a c section would probably be the best option for me. Everyone I spoke to absolutely loved their c section experience, and 99% of the comments online were so positive, so I wasn't worried about it at all once it was decided upon.

I had absolutely no pain during my c section or during recovery. I breastfed right away. I was up and about pretty much immediately. This seems to be the experience of most women who've had elcs. I would have an elective section again and again. If I'm lucky enough to have another baby, it'll be another section.

As such, I often wonder why more women don't choose to have their babies this way. It's so common in other countries. I think there's a lot of misinformation around c sections. The risks are also lumped in with those of emergency c sections, so electives are often painted to be riskler than they actually are.

You often hear people saying it's major abdominal surgery' in quite a judgemental way, which of course it is. But as far as surgical procedures go, it's generally very straightforward and in most cases, is easy to recover from.

I also repeatedly hear that vaginal is best as it's the most natural. But just because something is the 'natural' way to do something, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. There's lots of things we do now with technology and with medicine that isn't the 'natural' way, and nobody bats an eyelid.

I can't quite put my finger on why I was so opposed to c sections previously. It's like it was subconsciously ingrained in me for no reason other than popular rhetoric. Which is why I'd be interested to hear why others decided a vaginal birth was best for them? Or why others knew they wanted an elcs? Has your subsequent birthing experience changed your minds at all?

Eh, "risk" the natural route? Dearie me😂

Well.. I wasn’t peeing on myself before pregnancy and certainly not when I was pregnant.

That you where fine when pregnant is a valid point. So is mine.

Isn't VB better for the baby? I'm no expert but isn't there some benefit to being squeezed down the birth canal?

I’m always astounded at the women who say they had little to no pain after their c-section. I needed a planned c-section with DC2 (vaginal birth for DC1) and I was in absolute agony afterwards. I joined a few c-section groups beforehand and it astounded me how many women said they were pushing the pram on day 3 and going about their business like nothing had happened. I think there is a real reluctance sometimes to be honest about what a planned/elective c-section can be like. Yes they are more controlled, often calm and of course completely magical because you get to meet your new baby, but for some women recovery can be a hard road.

I don’t mean to have gone off on a tangent but it’s bothered me for a while that everyone is so loud about the wonders of an elective section with no sense that having zero to no pain is incredibly rare.

I chose a vaginal birth with DC1 because it didn’t cross my mind to ask for an elective unless medically recommended (as it was with DC2). I feel lucky to have experienced both in some ways. I was incredibly fearful of birth when k got pregnant with DC1 but it forced me to look at ways of calming those fears and afterwards I felt so proud of myself.

I've had an EMCS and an ELCS. Not entirely through choice; the ELCS was on the risk balance than a VBAC attempt would end in an EMCS anyway.

Both babies needed immediate medical attention, so I was lying there unable to move, cut open, and not even able to see, let alone touch, them. (They're fine now, just immediate birth needs.)

DC2 is 4 and I still have issues with the scar site, including a couple of bacterial infections.

Am I grateful all 3 of us are here and alive? Absolutely. Would I choose a C-Section if vaginal was an option? I couldn't say. I'm not having any more babies, in any case.

In your previous post @SantaSusan, you say there have been some really good points raised about why people have chosen CS over VB. But that wasn’t even your question. You wanted to know why people choose a VB.

However, you’ve come with an agenda. Your agenda is “I had a CS and it wasn’t what I thought I wanted but it ended up being really good”. Your whole post is about your guilt at having a CS, and you shouldn’t feel guilty about it. There is nothing wrong with how anyone gives birth and most of the time, we only have the illusion of choice.

Most people I know just wanted a good outcome for baby and for mum. The way you have come at this discussion, is from a place of judgement, because you are judging yourself. You don’t need to worry about anyone else’s birth, or anyone else’s birth choices.

It's incredible how you can place a disclaimer about judgement and be so judgemental yourself.

Vaginal birth is considered 'the norm' as it is how your body was created to birth a child. If you can naturally birth a child then it is the safest way to do so. Surgery of any kind brings major risks and therefore elective surgery needs to be weighed up benefits v's negatives. If those benefits outweighed the negatives for you then that is your choice to make. However, to start a post preaching about your idilic experience of a C-section when so many others have such traumatic experiences is quite frankly disgusting.

Thankfully, medicine has developed to the point where those who can't birth naturally do have an alternative option to save both mother and child. I have had 3 children, all birthed naturally, without drugs and I can tell you it is an experience like none other. For me, a C-section would never have been considered electively as the risks were too great, just as other elective surgery that I have refused to have until my children are grown up. That though is my experience, which doesn't make me feel superior as your experience appears to have made you.

Pregnancy, labour and post natal experiences are extremely personal and triggering for many. Starting a thread like this is only ever going to get an emotional response.

This I have had both (and won’t be having another one!)
DD was an elective c section due to an elective c section and it was all very calm, all very planned all very booked in. Went very well breastfed fine but it was clinical I think and all very organised

DS was the opposite - had to be in as waters broke thank god as it was a very fast labour but it was one I had to fight to be heard in and I experienced the euphoria when he was out - all done without any pain relief (even my stiches). It was singularly the most empowerijg experience of my life - getting the midwives at 1:15am to take me to the delivery suite because I was in labour taught me so much about listening to and following my instincts and be damned about what anyone else thought - something that DS had made me do again in his life!

I had an emergency c section with a general anaesthetic, recovery was a doddle! Only downside was that they kept me in hospital for three days, we were out in a cafe the day we got home and I was driving in two weeks.

It was standard when I was born that all new mums stayed in for 7 days post birth to rest and recover. Our NHS is vastly under resourced and wrapped up in huge amounts of red tape that I don't see how it can ever be pulled out of the hole it is currently in.

The entire maternity care system seems totally outdated and not fit for purpose the horror stories of mums being told what they 'have to do' are horrendous

Absolutely there is! Quite apart from the vaginal ‘seeding’ that strengthens their immune system and can reduce the risk of certain diseases, it’s crucial for the baby’s lungs, which is why babies born by section are at higher risk of lung problems after birth.

No, it's not 'better'. Despite the frequency of that claim being made on this thread. There are risks and benefits to both attempted VB and ELCS for both mother and baby, and it depends which set you feel are more acceptable. As per NICE guidance linked to earlier in the thread.

Better health outcomes for the baby mainly was my reason:

• gut colonisation better for marginally born baby
• favourable APGARs
• rates of breastfeeding better
• trigger of oxytocin sets off cascade of bonding hormones
• elective sections often scheduled for 39 week mark but studies show babies born at 41 ish week mark have better cognitive outcomes - section takes them out when they are “fine” but not yet fully cooked

sure there were others, but given the above it seemed like the obvious “choice”. Section is a medicalised birth and lots of delicate processes messed with unnecessarily. If you need one fine, but for me it was definitely the inferior choice.

It won’t prevent it but it will reduce your chances of pelvic floor issues.

Also the chronic strain of pregnancy on the pelvic floor is more manageable with pelvic floor exercises. Whereas it doesn’t matter how strong your pelvic floor is if the baby tears the muscle from the bone as it comes out.

As a man, I am not claiming to add any value to this thread, but I always remember one of my professors at Uni in the early 1990s - a very glamorous Italian lady - telling us how she had three daughters and all three had been planned c-sections. She booked the day that worked best for her, chatted to the doctor and then woke up and was handed a perfect baby.

She was baffled by why any woman would do anything different.

I was baffled by why this particular woman was sharing this story with a room full of law undergraduates.

excuse my typos - you get the pic

I wouldn't opt for surgery if I didn't need it - that was my reasoning. Both my DC were VB. Both (at the end) almost ended up as EMCSs (but they were born in time, if that makes sense), and I'm very relieved that I didn't need EMCSs!! For me, it meant faster recovery time and the ability to drive sooner. I also didn't have to worry about post op care.

When I was a student nurse, I was lucky enough to be in theatres for an ELCS and it was lovely. So I do understand why people do opt for them.

"I was up and looking after my baby pretty much right away. As are the majority of others who had an ELCS. "

I'm sorry op but you can't possibly know about "how the majority of women who had an ELCS felt" (and neither can I). That would involve knowing thousands / millions of women on a personal level, it's physically impossible! Sure I bet there are plenty who breezed it as you describe but I'm equally sure there are also many, many who struggled. Physically and mentally. They may not fit your narrative but they exist.

I also find it bizarre that you're calling the fact 'that's how babies are meant to come out' judgment. It's just a fact and the main reason I chose to have 2 vaginal births. They were amazing and I feel very privileged. I'm equally glad you had the elective you wanted. I can't see what good tearing each other down brings, can't we just all be happy for each other.

There will always be individual stories which go against the trend but for the AVERAGE woman and AVERAGE baby, VB is preferable.

I had two c sections, first emergency and second elective with advice from consultants, after how my first birth went. I obviously can't compare my births to a vaginal one, but overall they were both positive experiences, with simple recovery periods. I did experience labour with my first (was in labour for 52 hours before C-section was decided) and that part was traumatic, and I can see why women would want to avoid that if the option is there! But, I desperately wanted a natural vaginal birth with my first, and was a bit disappointed it didn't pan out that way. I can't explain why, I guess it was just the thought of being able to bring my baby into the world as nature intended seemed very important to me at the time. Obviously after 3 days in labour and baby becoming distressed, heart rate dipping, and increased risk of infection, the most important thing then obviously just became getting the baby out quickly and safely. C-sections do cost alot of money for the NHS, so I can totally see why vaginal births are pushed as optimal. There is also lots of research to suggest vaginal births give the baby a better start, the journey down the birth canal clears their airways, and then they get the added benefits of coming into contact with vaginal microbes, which c section babies do not. There's also evidence to suggest c section babies are more likely to miss out on breastfeeding, or breastfeeding not being established as quickly and easily. I didn't have any issues breastfeeding mine and did with both well into their toddler years, but when I researched c sections, that was something that made me want a vaginal birth even more, as I desperately wanted to breastfeed, and was worried my milk wouldn't come in with a c section birth. Definitely pros and cons to both, but if I could choose, I would have loved to experience a vaginal birth, even though my c sections were straightforward and easy, with no complications afterwards. I wouldn't recommend c sections, as it obviously is costly, and can come with complications, as I've seen with friends who've had them, but it certainly is a valid option for many. I'm not sure it should be a given right to demand one on the already overstretched NHS, but equally I'm not sure how they can refuse, if a woman has her own valid reasons for wanting one.

I should imagine a lot of women like myself who have had ELCS have either had a previous VB that had some sort of physical/mental trauma attached to it therefore an ELCS was brilliant or needed one for a pregnancy related medical issue.

I found the ELCS so good for so many reasons. I also found the recovery really straight forward and much easier than my appalling VB.

I think if I could pick my birth story my dream scenario would be a straight forward chilled out VB. Surely that would be everyone’s dream scenario though, right?

Some recover that fast.

Lets be real though.

Vaginal delivery is safer. Maternal mortality lowest for vaginal, followed by elective, followed by emergency. Recovery from c section is typically longer and there is more likely to be post birth complications. c sections also increase risks with future pregnancies, limits how many children you can have.

This doesn’t mean women shouldn’t have the choice but pretending they’re equal options is not helpful.

What does 'average' mean?

The NICE guidance is useful here. They state that on a population level, neither planned VB nor ELCS is preferable to the other, as there are risks and benefits to both approaches and it depends which set are more acceptable to the mother.

Home birth first time. EMCS second. VBAC in birthing unit with third.

I was desperate to avoid a second CS because I wanted to be back with my other children as soon as possible, and not to have to spend a night in hospital away from my husband.

And I hated that at the CS my baby was taken from me almost immediately for checks. Probably only a few minutes, but I was sure he was fine and just needed me and a good feed.

Everyone's experience is so different I don't think that you can really go by other people's experiences.

I was given the option of an induction or ELCS as my baby needed to be born early and chose the c-section. I had my baby at 3pm and was discharged home by 10am the next morning, I only needed paracetamol and ibuprofen that night and then had no pain afterwards and didn't need any pain relief at home.

I was mobile as soon as my spinal wore off a few hours after she was born and had no problems looking after my baby in hospital that night or once I got home.

The only downside was not being able to drive for 2 weeks.

If I have another baby I'll be opting for another C-section, it was the most positive experience I've ever had. I know plenty of women who have had VB and C-sections who's birth experiences are very different to my own, I was just very fortunate.