Is our society heading towards the point where having children is an unaffordable luxury for the average couple?

[MamaLlama123]

Is our society heading to the point where having/ raising children is becoming a luxury?

Thinking about my family as an example - My grandmother had 5 children - she was working class and a SAHM. Despite not having much, my grandparents were able to house, feed and raise their children well. They were not in poverty. They had small treats like fish & chips every Friday and a few days at the seaside every year etc. I don't think family size for this generation was any kind of luxury but children was just an inevitable outcome of life

Comparing this with today, I read so many threads on mumsnet about women who are in a much stronger position than my Grandma. They are not SAHM but actually have extensive qualifications/ careers and resulting in 2 incomes within the household. Despite being so much better off, women seem unable to confidently go forward in planning even a small family 1-2 children (comments from a recent thread about delaying 2nd child due to nursery fees comes to mind)

Are children becoming disproportionately more expensive compared to previous generations? and do you think that having children will be an unaffordable luxury/ unrealistic goal for todays children?

I think children make for a few very difficult years at nursery age unless you are very well off and can easily afford nursery etc or are on benefits + low wage and get up to 85% of nursery fees refunded. Or out of work and fully on benefits so don't have to send children to nursery until they get their free hours.

No benefit top ups here. £24k wage plus child benefit.

And the single parents earning over the benefits threshold or who own their own home (who probably form the majority)?

The main difference is not the money that people spend on fancy holidays etc but the cost of housing. My father had a decent civil service job when I was born but my parents had been able to buy a house a few years before based on 3x his salary (my mothers was disregarded as she was a married woman so might have to stop work at any time due to pregnancy). My mother, like the mothers of all her friends (many of whom were less well off) was a SAHM. We were able to live a good life on just my DF's salary. Since the banks changed their lending criteria house prices have shot up and rents inevitably followed. The cheapest 2 bed flats near me (not a nice area) cost just shy of £400k. Average household income in the borough is about £40k so many families are struggling to find somewhere to rent. If you can barely afford to live then you can't afford to add a child. Until housing costs are sorted out we are going to see an ever declining birth rate. A PP above suggested that we could accept immigration as an alternative but immigration is not going to help with housing crisis which drives this.

It's a good thing that people have less children. The world is over populated and it's the main driver of climate change although very few say it.

For the time being however, and I've believed this for a while, large families are for thoae at the top end economically (who can afford it) and at the bottom end economically (who get it paid for by the taxpayer).

This will and has started to backfire massively, the middles have been bled dry.

@DreamItDoIt how do you figure that out when you only get benefits for 2 children? Any after that you get nothing for. It causes real poverty.

People are going to have to adjust to living in smaller spaces with multiple generations. Like they used to.

There are twice as many people on earth as there were in the 1970s. Of course there is greater competition for all resources, from shelter to food to potable water.

And it will continue to deteriorate.

Kids being born today are going to live in a hellscape, and look back at 2023 like it was heaven.

Multi generational living will not be popular.
I am not English and my side of the family all escaped from multi generational living. When I visited family abroad they still live like this. There is support which is nice, but also a lot of interference and arguments. Like my Aunt and Uncle who do not believe in vegetarianism and tell my vegetarian SIL that frequently.
Its not easy.

@londonmummy1966

The cheapest 2 bed flats near me (not a nice area) cost just shy of £400k. Average household income in the borough is about £40k so many families are struggling to find somewhere to rent.

I'm assuming from your user name you live in London ? I agree it must be so very difficult, if not impossible, in that situation . Whereas I know a lot of people with similar family income (perhaps a little higher) - you can buy a two bedroom flat or a small house for half that where I live (midlands)

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea

Many of those lower paid jobs of under £25k will be topped up by benefits if there are children involved. Some childcare will be subsidised. All will receive 30 hours funding. All will receive child benefit. All who are renting will have their rent subsidised.

It's the middle who aren't having children. And it's because we are taxed and completely unsupported. I can afford 2 children. I can't afford more.

Not sleeping 4 children top to toe can hardly be classed as 'high standards', and that's only one of the things you listed

I didn’t when I was a lone parent.

I struggle financially on an average salary WITHOUT children, why tf do I want to add to that burden?

Mot true about benefits top ups. I earn £24k, no UC. I have no childcare costs and do get child benefit.
A couple with kids both on minimum wage with a mortgage will only get child benefit.

We have much higher standards nowadays and they come at a price.

Not standards, expectations. Let's face it who actually NEEDS to upgrade to the latest model mobile phone, SUV, larger TV etc etc.

You say "who actually NEEDS to upgrade to the latest model mobile phone, SUV, larger TV etc etc" but there are plenty of people out there who are feeling the pinch even replacing worn out or broken items!

And yes I would go as far to say that everyone over the age of 14 does NEED a working mobile and adults need access to a car if required (depending where they live). Access to a computer is pretty much essential these days and a having a TV that works doesn't seem a big ask for a family.

Even modest replacements for these "big ticket" items are really expensive. These "requirements" didn't exist 40 years ago.

HNY2024 You miss my point! I'm not saying that a 14 year old doesn't need a mobile FFS or that one shouldn't replace something like a washing machine or TV that has broken down, I'm merely saying no one needs a top of the range mobile or electric car for example just for the sake of it, especially now when the basic cost of living is so high for so many families.

I said they were born into working class families, in East London. My great grandfather worked in the matchstick factory. They both were from large families, grew up poor and left school at 14. My grandfather got a job in sales and they were housed outside London in a (very nice) council house, along with many others from East London post-war. They managed to save up enough on my grandfather's single salary to buy their own house and bring up 3 children with a decent standard of living, including one (the boy of course) who went to private school. They were very comfortably off in their middle/later years. My grandmother didn't work a day after she had children.

I'm sure there was an element of luck - I don't know how my grandfather landed his job without much education. But they benefited from relatively higher levels of social mobility, better availability of council housing and cheaper overall housing. It wasn't especially unusual at that time.

we are rural but kids primary school was ok a very wealthy little village so kids friends parents include lots of lawyers/doctors/consultants/uni lecturers/dentists etc and 3 kids is quite common. Lots of them went on to private school.

Some women don't want to. Some do. I'd be very happy being a SAHM and was certainly never bored on maternity leave! I'm not sure most mums are bored and lonely on maternity leave though I don't doubt some are.

But who's talking top of the range?

Fairly basic smart phones plus the monthly fees that come with them, a basic replacement television or a second (or third) hand 'new'car - these are all very expensive items for soneone on an average wage. I think that was the point pp was making. Fifty years ago these items weren't standard and weren't part of a household's costs..

Yeah, how dare people want to live somewhere safe or a decent distant from work? No, I think it is a good thing that people want more for themselves and therefore any children they choose to bring into the world.