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Is our society heading towards the point where having children is an unaffordable luxury for the average couple?

307 replies

MamaLlama123 · 15/01/2024 21:45

Is our society heading to the point where having/ raising children is becoming a luxury?

Thinking about my family as an example - My grandmother had 5 children - she was working class and a SAHM. Despite not having much, my grandparents were able to house, feed and raise their children well. They were not in poverty. They had small treats like fish & chips every Friday and a few days at the seaside every year etc. I don't think family size for this generation was any kind of luxury but children was just an inevitable outcome of life

Comparing this with today, I read so many threads on mumsnet about women who are in a much stronger position than my Grandma. They are not SAHM but actually have extensive qualifications/ careers and resulting in 2 incomes within the household. Despite being so much better off, women seem unable to confidently go forward in planning even a small family 1-2 children (comments from a recent thread about delaying 2nd child due to nursery fees comes to mind)

Are children becoming disproportionately more expensive compared to previous generations? and do you think that having children will be an unaffordable luxury/ unrealistic goal for todays children?

OP posts:
BrieAndChilli · 16/01/2024 11:11

alltootired · 16/01/2024 10:53

It does not cost a quarter of a million pounds. I have seen those costings. They are way over inflated. It is £12,900 a year. We have two children and this is how much I earn. I wonder what I am living on then? Fresh air?

if your income is £12,900 then I would assume that you are also getting child benefit, free school dinners, free childcare if at nursery, tax credits or UC? I did a quick calculation and based on having a mortgage (so not getting any help with rent) and no childcare (so now help with childcare costs) you should be getting £250 a week in extra benefits based on your income and 2 kids. That is an extra £12000 a year plus free school meals which could be £12.50 plus per child a week so for 2 kids equals another £1000 a year.

OrganicCamomileTea · 16/01/2024 11:11

Interesting thread. Life has changed so much in the past 50 years. Expectations have changed. Women now expect to be men's equals, whereas in previous generations it was assumed that housework and looking after children at home were a married woman's main role and responsibility.

Equality comes with a cost, unfortunately. Now that women have the same status as men, the available salary is split more or less equally between them. Previously it was more like 80/20, so the majority of men could earn enough to support a family on a single salary. I know that's a very simplistic argument, but it's the general gist of how things were and how they now are.

I had my children towards the tail end of "the old days". They are now in their 40s. For the first 6 years after the eldest was born I didn't do any paid work. I didn't have a lot of choice, as there was next to no childcare provision back then (but the truth was, I actually wanted to be a SAHM anyway, so was happy about it).

How did we manage to afford to live on only one salary?

Well, to begin with, when we bought the house the mortgage was based mainly on DH's salary (in the 1970s and into the 1980s, it was assumed that the wife would be having children and leaving work a few years down the line and so that was reflected in the mortgage offer). So although we had to tighten our belt when the children were born, it wasn't by a huge amount.

Secondly, our standard of living and our expectations were modest. We had no central heating, so energy costs were relatively low. We never went out to anywhere that had a cost involved. We ate cheap food from a discount supermarket (our dinner was often beans on toast. My lunch was often a pot noodle or a couple of slices of toast and marmite). Apart from underwear, the children had mostly 2nd hand clothes from the charity shop. Some of their Christmas and birthday presents were from car boot sales or handed down from cousins who'd outgrown them.
I used to buy bargain-bucket balls of wool and knit jumpers for the whole family.
Our TV was rented. There was no such thing as videos, mobiles, Internet etc back then, so we didn't have those expenses.

So much has changed! Nowadays mortgages are based on both partners earnings. People marry later and then don't want to take a step down (or several steps) in their standard of living in order to have children. They are naturally loath to give up the things they've become used to having, such as a warm heated home, new clothes now and then, holidays, meals out, takeaways, cinema trips, theatre, Netflix, nice phones, computers, a decent car etc etc etc.

Back in the late 70s/early 80s we had none of those things to begin with, so there was less to give up.

keylemon · 16/01/2024 11:11

Even very high earners are opting for one child in big cities around the world.. Income tax is very high and everything is very expensive. I rather not to have kids that rely on the state for my kids education. If I can’t afford them I would not have any. They are the ones that would suffer in any case.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

bobomomo · 16/01/2024 11:15

Out of interest I just put the purchase price and interest rate paid by my parents when i was a child into a calculator to find out what it's worth today - it's not as different as you think, their £48k house would be £249k today and a similar house where I am would be £289. Housing has been expensive for generations

WannabeMathematician · 16/01/2024 11:16

I’m in a different situation to many on here as it’s not money but time that is the issue. We earn well enough to have a second child but my husband doesn’t want a second because he wants to dedicate the small amount of time he has to our son and not split it. He feels that he couldn’t be patient with two kids. So we have one.

Not really sure what lesson to take away from that but I do wonder how many other people make a similar choice we (mostly he) has. I’d love another baby but I understand that you need buy in from both of us.

alltootired · 16/01/2024 11:18

@BrieAndChilli I have two children. My income is £24k. I get child benefit, that is all.

Chocolatebuttonns · 16/01/2024 11:18

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

Userob · 16/01/2024 11:21

alltootired · 16/01/2024 11:18

@BrieAndChilli I have two children. My income is £24k. I get child benefit, that is all.

Are you a home owner or have significant assets? That would be the only reason for not being eligible for UC or other support.

alltootired · 16/01/2024 11:25

Yes I own my home so no rent to pay. Two teenagers so no childcare.
I am just saying it is physically impossible for my children to cost me what is being quoted.

Usernamen · 16/01/2024 11:25

Speaking for myself as a mid-30s university educated professional woman, if I were to have a baby I would definitely stick at one.

Nothing to do with affordability, I just don’t want my life to be massively disrupted with multiple children, don’t want to assume the ‘mother’ role and want to keep my identity as much as possible.

This is the same for all my female friends - either child-free by choice or have/would have no more than one child.

There are so many more options for women these days and this should be celebrated.

Chocolatebuttonns · 16/01/2024 11:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

bobomomo · 16/01/2024 11:27

The other thing that drives up the cost of parenthood is the obsession with "experiences" and "making new traditions" look back into threads before Christmas and people were booking all kinds of outings. I swear mostly to post on Instagram, others seem to then feel they should too, FOMO basically. I was told by one poster that I didn't understand the pressure today's parents were under to ensure their kids had a good childhood, my argument is that kids idea of good is very different to adults - they are very content with low key cheap things!

BassoContinuo · 16/01/2024 11:29

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

I’m not sure it seems right either.

My parents bought their house in 1973. The house cost £13k, their household income was about £3900 and they had a 10% deposit so borrowed 3x salary.This would be the equivalent to an income of about £40,500 today - but the house was recently valued at nearly £500,000. So well over 10x salary even with the same % deposit

WannabeMathematician · 16/01/2024 11:29

Also as a side note. It's not actually cost effective to darn socks given the price of socks and the cost of darning thread. You'd really have to be spending at least £15 per pair of socks to buy som of signaficant quality to hold the darning thread without warping.

Source, someone who darns her own socks, trousers & cardigans and patches her own clothing. I see clothing repair as a very middle class thing as those are the people who buy clothes of a sufficient quality to be repaired!

Userob · 16/01/2024 11:33

bobomomo · 16/01/2024 11:27

The other thing that drives up the cost of parenthood is the obsession with "experiences" and "making new traditions" look back into threads before Christmas and people were booking all kinds of outings. I swear mostly to post on Instagram, others seem to then feel they should too, FOMO basically. I was told by one poster that I didn't understand the pressure today's parents were under to ensure their kids had a good childhood, my argument is that kids idea of good is very different to adults - they are very content with low key cheap things!

Yes keeping up with the Jones' has always been expensive. Just don't engage with it.

Usernamen · 16/01/2024 11:36

I should add that’s it’s only on MN that I see families with more than 2 children.

IRL I don’t know anyone of my generation (age 30-45) who has more than two children. Most have 1 or 0.

I may be in a London professional bubble though.

WithACatLikeTread · 16/01/2024 11:39

Userob · 16/01/2024 11:21

Are you a home owner or have significant assets? That would be the only reason for not being eligible for UC or other support.

A homeowner with two children doesn't need to earn very much to be entitled to nothing on UC. I think roughly £22k is the limit.

Chocolatebuttonns · 16/01/2024 11:42

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

Newchapterbeckons · 16/01/2024 11:48

Usernamen · 16/01/2024 11:25

Speaking for myself as a mid-30s university educated professional woman, if I were to have a baby I would definitely stick at one.

Nothing to do with affordability, I just don’t want my life to be massively disrupted with multiple children, don’t want to assume the ‘mother’ role and want to keep my identity as much as possible.

This is the same for all my female friends - either child-free by choice or have/would have no more than one child.

There are so many more options for women these days and this should be celebrated.

Yes I see that sentiment is very much alive in the younger generations that are affluent, ambitious and focused on their own well being. I like the fact they also seem more in touch with the reality of motherhood rather than the fantasy often peddled out.

They are clued up their professional sacrifice and hit to their careers and don’t see an advantage to having multiple children. In their position I would choose the same route. A manageable, affordable family life. It will impact the population stats if this becomes a trend, and we can only hope AI will step in to support the older generations. I don’t think it’s the job of youngsters to worry about social care personally.

Kwasi · 16/01/2024 11:51

I wish I'd had two.

I was 40 when I had DS (now 5) and he recently said that when we die, he'll have no family left. It broke my heart in two.

TheThingIsYeah · 16/01/2024 12:15

bobomomo · 16/01/2024 11:27

The other thing that drives up the cost of parenthood is the obsession with "experiences" and "making new traditions" look back into threads before Christmas and people were booking all kinds of outings. I swear mostly to post on Instagram, others seem to then feel they should too, FOMO basically. I was told by one poster that I didn't understand the pressure today's parents were under to ensure their kids had a good childhood, my argument is that kids idea of good is very different to adults - they are very content with low key cheap things!

Agreed.

Overstimulation.

Doesn't hurt for kids to be bored. Fuels their imagination.

jolies1 · 16/01/2024 12:19

Yep - absolutely. Expecting our first as at almost 36 it was starting to feel now or never. I’ve had many sleepless nights over how we will afford things. Both work FT, the industry I am in don’t pay enhanced maternity pay so it’s SMP only. Partner works 60 hours a week at the moment. Mortgage is £1300 on a small 3 bed house (smaller than the one my parents had - my dad worked an average wage job and mum was a SAHM until kids started school).

Nursery fees will be around £1k - £1.2k a month. I’m university educated as we were all encouraged to go to uni under the Labour govt to have better career prospects, although I was one of the first years to pay full tuition fees - still have student loan to pay off. My degree from a good uni has never made a difference to my career, I’ve worked hard but could have achieved my current role if I’d gone in straight from school.

No funded nursery until 3 as we are in Scotland and both work. We’ve timed mortgage renewal so we are fixed until the funded nursery kicks in.

Already know a second is unlikely - certainly not until we have 1 child in a funded place or more likely in school, but not sure we can afford to take another financial hit for 3 years. I know we are lucky to be able to have a family, and it is our choice, but it is tough realising we are unlikely to ever have as good a standard of living as our parents. (They were able to comfortably pay mortgage off by their 50’s, trade in car for a newer model every few years, go on a family holiday abroad every year, Sky tv etc).

Pineapples198 · 16/01/2024 12:22

Might get blasted for saying this but there are plenty of families who don’t work who have lots of children. I work in a deprived school and we have families who have a baby every 2 -3 years so that they can stay on universal credit indefinitely.
we have families with 7 or 8 children, receiving £3000-£4000 in benefits monthly. Whereas when I had my first child I couldn’t go back to work full time as it was the same cost for nursery as my wage (about £1100 a month) so I ended up working 2-3 days and asking my mum to drive a 3 hour round trip to look after him for a day. When I had another I actually then ended up qualifying as a childminder so I could work and take care of my own kids. Even before and after school care for 2 kids would’ve wiped out my wage. It’s very difficult for working families to manage paying for childcare but if you aren’t working and receiving benefits you can have as many kids as you like.
unfortunately I think this leaves having kids to the very rich and the unemployed. It’s the people in between who struggle

MojoDojoCasaHouse · 16/01/2024 12:46

As many previous posters have said expectations of previous generations were very different than now. My parents were born in 1946.

One set of GPs were very young (teenage pregnancy shotgun wedding). They had 5 DC in a very small 3 bed house. My GF didn’t seem to like children so they played out all day. They had 2 sets of clothing each, one being school uniform. A treat was a mars bar shred between 5.

Other GPs didn’t marry until early 30s when there was a house to inherit. The upstairs of the house was rented out so the 3 DC shared a tiny room. They didn’t own a car and never went on a holiday. GM only drank a sherry at Christmas whilst GF had a couple at the social club once a week.

Working age was 15/16 and all had to give 50% of wages to mother. My mum went to grammar but had no expectations of further ed. She made all her clothes for her office job at 16.

It is possible to have DC if you really want to. My DH was a FT uni student (mature student) when we had DC1. It really limited the money we wasted on unnecessary stuff and we felt very well off once his new career got going and both DC were past nursery age.

Chouxbun · 16/01/2024 13:06

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request