If you work in education, what do you think is causing the current attendance issues?

[NeedAnUpgrade]

I’ve read quite a lot on this recently. DD1 is 10, she’s always been reluctant to go to school. She had a spate of UTIs, stomach aches, headaches etc. She’s had a bit of time off sick but we only triggered the attendance letter recently as it went below a certain threshold. DH and I have always done our best to get her into school, being reassured that she’s ‘been fine all day’ by her teachers. It all came to a head this year (yr 5) after a complete meltdown, several anxiety attacks and refusal to leave the house. She’s now on a reduced timetable at school and on the waiting list for an ASD assessment.
Academically she’s ahead but just can’t seem to cope with the school environment.

I’m just wondering what those who work in education think the issues are. Am I just a terrible parent? Although I’m not sure what else I could do. I suspect a complete lack of funding in education has had the biggest impact on schools and students. Especially those with SEN.

Yes unfortunately this has gone the way of all threads on MN - schools are all awful, they are the cause of all the problems apparently.
The OP asked in her post ‘if you work in education’ but I would guess that most of those replying don’t work in education (but still want to detail all the things that schools are doing wrong without coming up with any solutions). I don’t think this is really going anywhere.

And OP I am very sorry about the difficult time you are having with your daughter and I hope things do improve 💐

One of the irritating aspects of DS’s school is the ridiculous use of isolation contrasted with the no-tolerance absence policy.

The kids are lectured about how they must be at school unless they’re practically dying. But, at the same time, if they forget their planner (or various other very minor infringements), they are put in isolation for the day and miss all their classes/do no meaningful work. You start to wonder if missing class work is, in fact, important.

Obviously disorganised kids who have forgotten their planner is a pain in the arse. But DS’s school gave it as equivalent to fighting (actual violence!) in their disciplinary pyramid.

Secondary schools in the 21st century are very weird places, sometimes run by men with aspirations to being the Kim jong-un of their schools.

I completely agree. Both of my teens have ASD and both now have EBSA . I have tried everything to get them into school and on the brink of homeschooling. My son just said to me " do you not think if I could go in I would?" He wants to be in school like everyone else but cannot cope with school demands and the environment. So its not a criticism of the school itself.

Im not sure that’s an accurate reflection. Many of us with school
refuser experience due to Sen have said that mainstream schools are challenging because of the child’s needs. That’s not school bashing or teacher bashing it’s just an acknowledgment of the reality for many children. Solutions would be more Sen provision and more specialist schools or more funding for education other which would actually meet the needs of many of these kids better.

instead what happens is parents are blamed for being feckless, not encouraging resilience, attaching labels, not caring about education . If people would listen to parents of school refuses , and I mean really listen without judging , they’d see that (in the main) were none of those things . We value education just as much as the next person just not at the expense of the mental health of our children . Those judging have no idea, if they could walk a mile in the shoes of the parents of a school refuser they would stop judging.

Service users - and parents are indirect service users of schools - can’t solve the problems. They can’t and don’t know the solutions.

But they can describe what they perceive as the problems from their perspective. It may not be an objective or accurate problem definition, but that doesn’t mean there’s no problem.

It is really frustrating when people try to shut down discussion about things with the ‘you’re offering no solutions’ line. Of course, they aren’t. The thing about user feedback is that people are good at knowing there is a problem. They’re poor at accurately defining the problem itself (but good at telling you how it shows up for them). And when they tell you how to solve it, they’re almost certainly wrong.

It’s not like dealing with a spouse who just moans and expects you to solve the problems for them. You’re supposed to be equal partners. One of you is not (supposed to be) operating a service the other uses. Schools are a public service. Parents can raise problems without being responsible for providing the solution.

Parents of children with sen who school refuse become more than service users though. We have to navigate and deal with teachers, education welfare officers (where they exist), mental health services, other health services and local authorities, in a way that is unimaginable to parents who's only job is to get their child to school.

Often we become responsible for delivering an alternative education, even though the law says we shouldn't be.

There are so many of us, all with similar experiences, that collectively we are experts in what is needed to assist our children. Not Fine In School estimates that 90 % of school refusers have SEN, that was from a survey of its users. But what I find interesting is no one is really interested in the parents/ child's perspective.

Recently my eldest teenager was discharged from CAMHS to GP care for his anxiety needs, he is also autistic. The CAMHs consultant asked me if he was able to share my son's education experience as a case study with his colleagues. There is too much assumption about outcomes for school refusers and not enough research done for what would help them to be best educated. Setting aside the school issue it is is in society's interest that children with additional needs are helped to thrive. A recognition that mainstream school does not always produce the best outcomes might be a good starting point.

Well maybe these threads go this way for a reason?
Perhaps something is so wrong that that’s why.
I am an ex primary teacher, am I allowed to comment?
I think this thread in the main has been a fair and constructive discussion (aside from the usual parent-bashing comments and particularly the parents of sen kids).

And sometimes I think those working IN education can have a form of ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ with regards the system. I know I had a bit of it when I was teaching. So are unable to separate what is reasonable and what is not.

Give an example?

You are still service users - just users with far more significant needs that are most definitely not being met. So you have had to create a million workarounds and fight to try to have your children’s needs met.

The problem is that education as a public service is abominable at actually considering the needs of the people who use the service, and particularly at listening to parents who are telling them there is a problem. All too often the narrative is to simply blame the service users rather than accept that it us a very poorly designed service.

Teachers become defensive and chippy even though they know that the system is fundamentally broken. Understandably because they are also being blamed for systemic failures.

Theres also a big element of societal attitude that any adjustments or accommodations for users with more complex needs is some kind if ‘pandering’. The same problem contributes to the problems disabled people have all over the place. The education system somehow uses weasel wording around SEN to try to pretend it’s not just disability discrimination.

There is also the physical aspect to mental health. Quite often children suffering with anxiety, for example, have first suffered with underlying health conditions which the NHS have failed to diagnose or treat. Things such as gut malabsorption issues, glandular fever triggering fatigue etc., anaemia, vitamin deficiencies, rare genetic conditions. The NHS are rubbish at running all the blood counts and full tests straight away. In places like France and Germany/Switzerland etc if you bring a child in with any type of issues, they run a full physical comprehensive check first. That absolutely has to be excluded for all children who are struggling.

For example, my DS seemed to present with anxiety. A holiday in France and full investigations there, meant we realised he had had glandular fever in the past, which triggered fatigue etc which then led to some school based anxiety. We had paid to have him assessed here for ADHD/ASD privately to rule things out, because the GP would not do anything. Just said he must have OCD tendencies and that is it. Here is a pamphlet.
Another friend’s child has severe anaemia and then school refusal. They just gave them iron which caused loads of side effects. Only years later did they realise the child had coeliac. Which again many other countries run tests for straight away when a child presents with any type of issues. That child with coeliac who did not go to school for years, eventually caused so many problems and a marital breakdown, lots of problems for the siblings too etc etc. When basic healthcare does not work for children optimally and issues are not nipped in the bud, it can lead to mental health problems and struggles for the whole family. Sometimes the NHS is like a fortress and people are just too exhausted having to fight the system to get in and small issues become huge problems for the entire family. The same applies to mental health - if things are not nipped in the bud, they escalate and get worse and worse. It is like a building, if you don’t repair it quickly and efficiently, eventually the whole thing collapses and takes the neighbouring houses with it.

I agree with @Araminta1003 about health services. Education and the NHS need an entire overhaul but it will take a brave government to do so.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmeduc/970/report.html

The thing that is quite surprising to me is that the persistent absence rate in special schools is really high. So even if the local authority pays the huge fees for special schools something is not working. You would expect authorised absences to be high due to medical appointments etc, but unauthorised one would expect to be much better in special schools? But then when you read the threads on here of kids being bussed 30 miles away you then quickly realise why this may be the case. Even if the local authority is stomping up thousands and thousands for SEN children, if the school is not local then how will it actually work for parents in practise?

I agree about health services. Not enough is done to rule out glandular fever, pans/pandas, limes etc, get to the root of nutrient deficiencies etc..

I think this will be a combination of things, including distance to schools.

There are way fewer specialist schools since inclusion became the policy. This means that in many areas there are few or no schools that cater to children without learning difficulties or behavioural problems, which means that children are in inappropriate SEN schools if they can't be in mainstream. This is what the LA tried to do with my son but there is no way he would have coped.

For families who can't keep their children at home this is the least worst option as it is better than mainstream but it is not always appropriate for the child's needs.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/pupil-attendance-in-schools

I urge anyone to read the full report I linked above. The dashboard here is just for schools who voluntarily signed up.

Note the report states specifically “16. Alice Wilcock, Head of Education at the Centre for Social Justice (CSJ), welcomed the introduction of the dashboard and its widespread usage by schools.37 But she noted “that does leave about 20% of schools that are not, and they are the schools that local authorities are most concerned that they cannot get their eyes on”.38 She argued for “a big push to make that statutory”.39
17. However, the Information Commissioner’s Office raised concerns about the dashboard.40 It said the Department had initially failed to meet its legal obligation to provide a Data Protection Impact Assessment before it began storing information.41 A Freedom of Information request shows the Department was also asked to pause the collection and carry out a risk assessment, but the Department declined to do so.42’

The dashboard “may” therefore exclude the most worrying schools and many vulnerable pupils.

So if we are told the dashboard tells us the absence figures are getting better, it is important to question the accuracy.

The Information Commissioner is the office in charge of data protection issues. The DFE wants all schools to participate but I don’t know if they have now done the proper data protection assessment or not. Again, an example of two conflicting services delaying each other! They should be working together. Not just passing the buck. Which seems to be the way stuff is done in England these days.

My son was diagnosed with ASD in late 1990's early 2000's
A relative has a son who is now a teen with ASD
We compared how they received their diagnosis and assessment

1. As a parent I noticed behaviours in my son as a baby and toddler that were consistent with autism which received a lot of media attention in late 1990's due to concern over the MMR vaccine.

However it wasn't until he started school that his reception teacher agreed with me and started him school action plan for extra help that we were then referred for a full assessment which in those days was done by a community paediatrics team and clinical psychology. He was finally diagnosed at 6 yrs old. I had lots of support throughout from psychology- occupational therapy- SLT - who would meet as a multi discipline team - school teacher attended too or sent in a report. 2, my relative - son diagnosed recently couldn't not get primary school to agree that he needed a referral - had to do a self referral on line via education authority. Had to push for reports from sshool- had to arrange her own psychologist and then wait a couple of years for CAMHS assessment. Had to push for a place in asd unit for secondary school - he is now in one but spends most of his time in the mainstream school - as the unit is reserved for kids who' s needs are worse than his - time will tell how he much he can achieve in the long term but he still has regular meltdowns in class and had no friends at all. My son had a learning support worker who he could go to if he needed ( not classroom support ) - he had lots of issues - dropping out of university ( could not cope socially ) but he now has a really good career job. Lives independently still has his difficulties with social skills but is doing OK. What I am saying here is different era's - different experiences of getting a diagnosis. I think one of the issues now is that parents can take the initiative and apply online for ASD ADHD assessments - on the one hand it is good because you are not left waiting for a professional to tell you your child has extra needs in education but on the other hand it has led to an explosion of self referrals for CAMHS assessments which I believe now have long waiting lists - which leads to parents doing their own self diagnosis while they are waiting. Some of these kids waiting for assessment will not have these conditions - some kids will have anxiety etc due other factors going on their family lives which parents will not necessarily see when they do their own referral.

There were long waiting lists before self referral. There were reports about long waiting times already in 2013 whereas the self referral was 2018 if I understand correctly.

Austerity cuts in 2008-10 I guess :(

Well, exactly. Teachers say restorative techniques have failed, they can’t raise their voices without parents complaining they made their child feel ‘unsafe’. It’s one big mess to be honest, people wanting improvements but using methods that lead to the problem in the first place.

In public sector institutions, there is a focus on strategy, the actual implementation or operational aspects are poor.
The idea behind discipline is sound, but the actual reality and implementation are shocking. As is the complete and utter shambolic use of data sets to measure and influence behaviour.
The public sector then cries we need more money. Every single institution is either bankrupt or mismanaged-from the post office to the education sector.

That’s just not true!
Parents as indirect service users can of course offer up and come up with really good solutions! MATS & government just often dont want to hear them/wont listen because it actually means making an effort to understand and then properly fund and re-train staff.

As soon as schools start purporting to know our children better than we parents do (and how our children present and learn within often a very uncomfortable environment for those with SEND), it starts going downhill.

Agree - and don't forget, like the Post Office, there's a LOT of middlemen, consultants, and companies skimming of large amounts of money for "developing strategies" and selling on useless pieces of equipment or training courses and expecting people at the front line to bear the brunt of their "strategies".

A lot of these "names" just move around advisory boards and directorships and pass work onto each other.

"The data and the science say X" is a common use of bullshit which somehow means enacting X makes huge profits for someone.

Behavioural issues to some extent. My daughters class has about 15-20% disruptive SEN students who ruin the learning for the others and are a bad influence on the others too sometimes. Just because they can't always help it doesn't mean they should be a detriment to the rest. Maybe your daughters class is similar.

It is true.

Parents and service users generally very often are certain they have a great solution. They know what (they think) will work for their child. But they don’t have the full context and don’t understand what the best solution for the service as a whole might be to meet the needs of all its users.

Yes, school are shit at listening to parents. But that is not the only reason why the solutions parents are so sure will work aren’t put in place.

That’s not a failure of parents - they do know their child and they are the child’s best advocates. But it that doesn’t mean they know what will work in a particular school context or why something might work for an individual child but create much bigger problems.

Have found this to be the cause of most long term absences sadly and the kids come to expect it.