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If you work in education, what do you think is causing the current attendance issues?

699 replies

NeedAnUpgrade · 15/01/2024 12:30

I’ve read quite a lot on this recently. DD1 is 10, she’s always been reluctant to go to school. She had a spate of UTIs, stomach aches, headaches etc. She’s had a bit of time off sick but we only triggered the attendance letter recently as it went below a certain threshold. DH and I have always done our best to get her into school, being reassured that she’s ‘been fine all day’ by her teachers. It all came to a head this year (yr 5) after a complete meltdown, several anxiety attacks and refusal to leave the house. She’s now on a reduced timetable at school and on the waiting list for an ASD assessment.
Academically she’s ahead but just can’t seem to cope with the school environment.

I’m just wondering what those who work in education think the issues are. Am I just a terrible parent? Although I’m not sure what else I could do. I suspect a complete lack of funding in education has had the biggest impact on schools and students. Especially those with SEN.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Shinyandnew1 · 17/01/2024 19:22

They're the 'face' of the system.

I agree with this. We have parents who are frustrated that they can’t get to speak to a doctor or dentist, there’s no Health Visitor to see them, the waiting list for speech therapy, Occupational Therapy and paediatric referrals are ridiculously long, the school nursing service isn’t properly functioning and the less said about mental health referrals the better, and we are the only people who they can ‘get at’. I have had some truly vile emails from parents this year. I get that everyone is frustrated with the system, but I’m just one person and speaking to me like trash just makes me want to leave as well :(

Missamyp · 17/01/2024 19:31

Rainyblue · 17/01/2024 18:43

A sanction for being late to a lesson. This is a clear example of the absurd micromanagement of children. How about, why are you late, a brief conversation and move on? Not a data file (black book) of micro misdemeanours. This then triggers a rather rude long boring letter about how pupil x will never amount to anything because of being 1 minute late to a lesson.

Do you really think a brief conversation about why the student is late is really going to work? Because I can tell you it doesn’t…. I presume you don’t work in a school?
Also why should the rest of the students have their lesson held up for this chat because Johnny was hanging around in the loos with his mates?
And yes pupils who are repeatedly late miss a crucial part of the lesson (the teacher explaining what work they need to do). It might seem ‘boring’ to you but it can make a big difference to a lot of pupils just being on time, especially those with SEN who will spend the rest of the lesson trying to catch up.

No, I don't work in a school. I have however been on the receiving end of long condescending letters about attendance and other micro infringements. Compiling stats triggers this nonsense.
Micromanaging children is controlling and leads to self-doubt, disengagement, loss of motivation, and loss of morale. It's not uncommon for micromanaging to result in deteriorating self-esteem and confidence.
Does this list sound familiar, empirically it's clear school administration methods are not working. Being hyper-conscientious has a detrimental effect on children's educational well-being.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 17/01/2024 19:38

A sanction for being late to a lesson. This is a clear example of the absurd micromanagement of children. How about, why are you late, a brief conversation and move on?

So we waste the beginning of every lesson having chats about being late? Child launches into some long (often made-up) excuse, possibly starts arguing about it if you challenge them. Meanwhile rest of the class is getting restless. You don't issue a sanction, so child knows they can hang around in the corridor and chat to their mates rather than bothering to be on time to your lesson. Other kids realise this too. Punctuality gets worse.

Alternative: click behaviour point. Takes 2 seconds. No argument. Child gets sanctions from several teachers and is less likely to keep being late.

What deterrent do you think 'having a quick chat' actually is? Kids are often deliberately late.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

allthevitamins · 17/01/2024 20:05

It's very difficult and there are lots of conflicting priorities.

We want data about what constitutes a 'good' school yet we don't want the activities that generate that data.

We want discipline for our children but not the boundaries that create it.

We want standards but at the cost of the creativity that delivers excellent education.

We want discipline but without the monitoring, behaviour management and imposition of routines that create this.

We want excellent attendance figures but not the management of attendance that goes with it.

We want our children safeguarded but we don't want the administrative burden that achieves this.

We want an individualised education without the cost.

We want creative teachers but not the lack of consistency that this can lead to.

We want a school that has great behaviour but we don't want our child sanctioned.

We want everything, everywhere, to be above average.

We undervalue the professional skill of teachers.

We actually undervalue the professional skill of school managers (often former teachers... so often poor managers and a teacher effectively lost to the profession to boot).

Basically we all want the best of everything available to every family at all times whether or not they engage with it.

Missamyp · 17/01/2024 20:12

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 17/01/2024 19:38

A sanction for being late to a lesson. This is a clear example of the absurd micromanagement of children. How about, why are you late, a brief conversation and move on?

So we waste the beginning of every lesson having chats about being late? Child launches into some long (often made-up) excuse, possibly starts arguing about it if you challenge them. Meanwhile rest of the class is getting restless. You don't issue a sanction, so child knows they can hang around in the corridor and chat to their mates rather than bothering to be on time to your lesson. Other kids realise this too. Punctuality gets worse.

Alternative: click behaviour point. Takes 2 seconds. No argument. Child gets sanctions from several teachers and is less likely to keep being late.

What deterrent do you think 'having a quick chat' actually is? Kids are often deliberately late.

Yet these methods are not working children's attendance and behaviours are according to stats becoming worse.
Both DP and I and another 700 pupils recently received letters about lesson lateness. Upon discussing this with the person responsible for this administration it was clear the guidelines for triggering these measures are rigid.

And when I said chat, it meant you were late, sit down.

Validus · 17/01/2024 20:19

Samlewis96 · 17/01/2024 11:05

My grandson has 12 In his class. Essex village school. 90 kids from reception to year 6

Edited

We have classes of 24 in our Oxford city centre school.

Rihanna707 · 17/01/2024 20:45

The idea that COVID broke the notion of schools being compulsory is interesting. It highlights that we focus too much on the institution and need more focus on education and learning. The system is not fit for purpose, and that's not a swipe at educators but at us holding onto an old system when times have changed.

Naptrappedmummy · 17/01/2024 20:46

allthevitamins · 17/01/2024 20:05

It's very difficult and there are lots of conflicting priorities.

We want data about what constitutes a 'good' school yet we don't want the activities that generate that data.

We want discipline for our children but not the boundaries that create it.

We want standards but at the cost of the creativity that delivers excellent education.

We want discipline but without the monitoring, behaviour management and imposition of routines that create this.

We want excellent attendance figures but not the management of attendance that goes with it.

We want our children safeguarded but we don't want the administrative burden that achieves this.

We want an individualised education without the cost.

We want creative teachers but not the lack of consistency that this can lead to.

We want a school that has great behaviour but we don't want our child sanctioned.

We want everything, everywhere, to be above average.

We undervalue the professional skill of teachers.

We actually undervalue the professional skill of school managers (often former teachers... so often poor managers and a teacher effectively lost to the profession to boot).

Basically we all want the best of everything available to every family at all times whether or not they engage with it.

Yes I, too, am interested to know how this should be squared. Complaints about poor behaviour putting children off attending school but also complaints about sanctions, firm boundaries, etc

Segway16 · 17/01/2024 20:49

Passingthethyme · 17/01/2024 07:17

This

It’s no one else’s fault you aren’t successful or trusted enough to work from home.

Segway16 · 17/01/2024 20:53

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 17/01/2024 08:29

Couldn't agree more. WTF is happening here!!! I utterly despair! Everybody's dc seem to have ADD/ADHD/SEN/ANXIETY/Mental health issues. This was happening BEFORE Covid, so can't blame everything on that.
I worry for their future😫

My child can’t speak. At all. They are significantly delayed and have severe SEN as recognised by multiple bodies. I’m sorry that it somehow upsets you that SEN children are being recognised but I promise it doesn’t take anything away from you 🙄

WhereGlasses · 17/01/2024 21:09

Covid made school seem optional.

Some parents don't care about education.

It's not the teachers fault, they are trying their best.

Verbena17 · 17/01/2024 21:26

WhereGlasses · 17/01/2024 21:09

Covid made school seem optional.

Some parents don't care about education.

It's not the teachers fault, they are trying their best.

School is optional.
Education is not optional.

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 17/01/2024 21:34

Segway16 · 17/01/2024 20:53

My child can’t speak. At all. They are significantly delayed and have severe SEN as recognised by multiple bodies. I’m sorry that it somehow upsets you that SEN children are being recognised but I promise it doesn’t take anything away from you 🙄

Oh for goodness sake!! It's not about taking "anything away from ME". I am just frustrated that everyone's dc seems to have a "label" attached. I'm so so sorry your dc has difficulties, genuinely.
My ds, now 22 was a little shit, Always in trouble, generally an unpleasant wee boy. I had the school and social work dept at school asking if I thought he had adhd etc... I done my research at length. And, No, he didn't have any of these afflictions, he was just struggling with homelife issues (drunken dad). So it was that (me) that was the issue. I accepted that and did my utmost to love and be there for him.
Parents just need to take some ownership of their responsibilities and not "label" their dc, ultimately giving them a bleak future.
PS
He's now a hard working wee 😇
Good luck with your dc

Segway16 · 17/01/2024 21:41

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 17/01/2024 21:34

Oh for goodness sake!! It's not about taking "anything away from ME". I am just frustrated that everyone's dc seems to have a "label" attached. I'm so so sorry your dc has difficulties, genuinely.
My ds, now 22 was a little shit, Always in trouble, generally an unpleasant wee boy. I had the school and social work dept at school asking if I thought he had adhd etc... I done my research at length. And, No, he didn't have any of these afflictions, he was just struggling with homelife issues (drunken dad). So it was that (me) that was the issue. I accepted that and did my utmost to love and be there for him.
Parents just need to take some ownership of their responsibilities and not "label" their dc, ultimately giving them a bleak future.
PS
He's now a hard working wee 😇
Good luck with your dc

Thank you. But you cannot make sweeping statements about children you have no idea about. No one is getting a diagnosis (which is bloody hard by the way) without actual medical input. Very few children are getting any kind of intervention at school without real evidence that it’s needed - and often a decent fight.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 17/01/2024 21:56

Naptrappedmummy · 17/01/2024 12:00

Then we need to find out why so many children are autistic. We could build all these sensory schools but they will eventually have to go out into the world around them and earn money. We can’t make the world sensory. What then? I don’t have an answer I just find it all deeply worrying in terms of what the workforce will be in 15 odd years.

I struggled with sensory issues at school and yet I now earn money.

There's a difference between what an autistic child can cope with and what an autistic adult can cope with, especially because adults don't have to wear school uniform and can wear sunglasses and headphones at work without getting thrown into detention.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 17/01/2024 22:09

Anxious behaviours are very intertwined with neurodivergence.

@Naptrappedmummy Are you suggesting that I would somehow not be autistic if I was less anxious? I'm anxious because I'm autistic in a neurotypical world.

Fliopen · 17/01/2024 22:10

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 17/01/2024 21:34

Oh for goodness sake!! It's not about taking "anything away from ME". I am just frustrated that everyone's dc seems to have a "label" attached. I'm so so sorry your dc has difficulties, genuinely.
My ds, now 22 was a little shit, Always in trouble, generally an unpleasant wee boy. I had the school and social work dept at school asking if I thought he had adhd etc... I done my research at length. And, No, he didn't have any of these afflictions, he was just struggling with homelife issues (drunken dad). So it was that (me) that was the issue. I accepted that and did my utmost to love and be there for him.
Parents just need to take some ownership of their responsibilities and not "label" their dc, ultimately giving them a bleak future.
PS
He's now a hard working wee 😇
Good luck with your dc

A "label", as you put it, does not equal a "bleak future".

Fliopen · 17/01/2024 22:11

WhereGlasses · 17/01/2024 21:09

Covid made school seem optional.

Some parents don't care about education.

It's not the teachers fault, they are trying their best.

It always has been optional. School in this country is opt in, not opt out.

whiteboardking · 17/01/2024 22:37

My totally normal generally compliant Yr7 in a strict but not Uber strict school is a great example of all this.
He's quite often late / on the nail as he's just not that fussed about getting late marks. He's reluctant to do homework as 'he can't be bothered'.
He'll happily do 10 min detention instead. Hed rather hang out with mates or play on a screen.
He's no fear of getting in minor trouble with his teachers.
He's top set and generally a peace keeper.
I think covid changed their relationship with school - he had a hideous time as sister has Sen and we both had to work through lockdowns

IHS · 17/01/2024 22:55

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 17/01/2024 21:34

Oh for goodness sake!! It's not about taking "anything away from ME". I am just frustrated that everyone's dc seems to have a "label" attached. I'm so so sorry your dc has difficulties, genuinely.
My ds, now 22 was a little shit, Always in trouble, generally an unpleasant wee boy. I had the school and social work dept at school asking if I thought he had adhd etc... I done my research at length. And, No, he didn't have any of these afflictions, he was just struggling with homelife issues (drunken dad). So it was that (me) that was the issue. I accepted that and did my utmost to love and be there for him.
Parents just need to take some ownership of their responsibilities and not "label" their dc, ultimately giving them a bleak future.
PS
He's now a hard working wee 😇
Good luck with your dc

Do you actually recognise how offensive you're being?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 17/01/2024 22:58

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 17/01/2024 21:34

Oh for goodness sake!! It's not about taking "anything away from ME". I am just frustrated that everyone's dc seems to have a "label" attached. I'm so so sorry your dc has difficulties, genuinely.
My ds, now 22 was a little shit, Always in trouble, generally an unpleasant wee boy. I had the school and social work dept at school asking if I thought he had adhd etc... I done my research at length. And, No, he didn't have any of these afflictions, he was just struggling with homelife issues (drunken dad). So it was that (me) that was the issue. I accepted that and did my utmost to love and be there for him.
Parents just need to take some ownership of their responsibilities and not "label" their dc, ultimately giving them a bleak future.
PS
He's now a hard working wee 😇
Good luck with your dc

FFS the "label" does not cause anything. That's like claiming that women menstruate because we are labeled as female.

NeedAnUpgrade · 17/01/2024 22:59

My last comment on here as I think this thread has probably run it’s course as it seems to be turning into a teacher bashing/ ‘everyone needs a label these days’ thread, which was not my intention.

Was really interested in hearing other perspectives for school refusal as I only have my own DDs experience to go on. So thanks to anyone who actually shared their real experiences and thoughts on it.

For some context I also have a younger but very much NT child. She has days where she grumbles about having to go to school because it’s boring, she doesn’t like PE, it’s a bit cold outside etc. just like most kids. Her not really wanting to go to school on a particular day is nothing like the extreme reaction and anxiety of my older DD. The younger one had 100% attendance last year. There’s a big difference between not really wanting to do something and having an extreme aversion to it. I hope that’s been made clear to those who assume it’s all down to parents who can’t be bothered.

OP posts:
Verbena17 · 17/01/2024 23:04

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 17/01/2024 22:09

Anxious behaviours are very intertwined with neurodivergence.

@Naptrappedmummy Are you suggesting that I would somehow not be autistic if I was less anxious? I'm anxious because I'm autistic in a neurotypical world.

I just think perhaps they’re referring to how the fight/flight/freeze presentation of autism for example, would therefore lead to a period of high anxiety.

My DS is autistic and also diagnosed with ARFID and GAD (Generalised Anxiety Disorder). This last diagnosis is simply the outcome of him being in ‘flight’ mode for most of the day.
I think that’s perhaps what the poster meant? As opposed to implying you wouldn’t be autistic if you didn’t have anxiety.

Guavafish1 · 17/01/2024 23:11

I went to a secondary school in the 90s-2000s.

I look back and the majority was a waste of time. I larked about in the first 4 years and become focused for my GSCEs years. I personally think it would have been better if I had the money to fund my own education.

lavenderlou · 18/01/2024 03:27

Complaints about poor behaviour putting children off attending school but also complaints about sanctions, firm boundaries, etc

It should be possible to come up with a system that keeps unruly students in check while not being completely off-putting to your quiet, well-behaved students.

Swipe left for the next trending thread