BIG careers what are they? Magic circle accounting? Law? Helping dd choose a levels and future career.

[StuckintheRutt]

Hello my dd is choosing history and biology and is stuck as to what to choose for her next a level. She had no idea what to do for the 3rd.
Obviously her interest is history and biology and she's done very well in mocks with 8s and 9s predicted for all subjects...

She's considering pyscology, possibly chemistry, possibly English, possibly geography.

I was thinking if I can collate the big careers that may help.
Am I correct in magic circle accounting and does anyone know what you can do there eg I know bookkeeping and forensic accounting.... Is accounting interesting and is it maths pure..

Investment banking, how would she get in and are there equivalent to the magic circle. Same with law or is it law that has the magic circle 🤣..

What other big jobs, classic are there please and what's the way to get them what to aim for...

Sorry to add what's the equivalent for sciences, medicine is obvious but would it also be something like research?

If she is good at Maths, it is probably the most useful to add to those - viewed well by employers and less work than other A levels if she has the skills.

English and History both have a very big workload so only recommended together for those who love the subjects

I can't help with the others but if interested in accounting the subjects don't matter beyond GCSE. You just need a degree and strong UCAS points. That would generally be enough to get you into the big 4 general programmes, unless you were trying to go for something very specialised. You would be expected to have high English and maths gcse grades however.
In my accounting grad programme we had sciences, economics, history, English and MFL degrees and all fared fairly equally through the accounting training.

Has she got the remotest interesting in accountancy or investment banking?

Medicine and engineering will need specific A levels to get into the university courses.

For accountancy and investment banking she needs a 2:1 or better from a really good university to be in the running for most desirable graduate jobs (plus work experience, ideally internship but at least something relevant, and lots more on the CV).

The choice of university will be far more important than the choice of A levels. Think RG more than old polytechnics, generally speaking.

Accountancy doesn't require very complex maths on the whole.

Actuaries are very well paid and work reasonable hours, but she'd need to be extremely good at maths, and it looks like she isn't pursuing that at A level.

There's also software engineering which arguably doesn't require a degree.

Oh and accounting isn't maths pure at all. Very logic and business focused.
My a levels were all humanities subjects and an English degree. I passed my accounting exams at first sitting, and I'm now working in a senior finance position within industry (technology company).

She needs to follow her heart, not be looking at BIG jobs. You’re at work a long time, you need to like what you’re doing. Biology and history are a million miles away from accounting, banking and law. English or maths are both extremely useful subjects.

She definitely doesn't want to take maths as a level at the moment and her grades are swinging between an 8 and 9 at gcse.

@TygerPassant she's got no idea what they entail at the moment hence me asking.
I have a rough idea of investment banking but not accounting.

@scrunchmum so silly questions then but is accounting more than maths and can I take it you don't need maths a level to get into accounting?

Does your DD want a “BIG career”?!

And if so, why? Just the money, or the chance to be involved in huge deals/cases etc? She needs to be attracted to the subject matter not just the rewards. Has she any interest in reading the business pages?

Surely, that’s what is important. Being interested and motivated by your career must be as important as the financial reward.

You definitely don't need maths a level to get into accounting. As I said it's more business and logic, it needs a good understanding of numbers but not advanced maths.
Is she able to get to a careers fair to speak to companies? The big 4 are big grad employers and always show up to those things. Maybe at a local university if they host one?

@Manyandyoucanwalkover

Thank you so much for this feedback. At the moment she's totally stuck as to how to move forward so if we start with the big obvious jobs we can whittle things down.
We understand that biology and history are poles apart and currently she has one foot in the sciences and one in the humanities which is good but also adds to her confusion.

An accountant on a thread yesterday said she suspects many jobs in the profession will be lost to AI in the future.

What is she planning on studying at university and where?

Magic circle is law. She doesn’t need to go an undergrad in law, but will need a very good degree from a very good uni - followed by LPC (which of course costs more ££!).

Accounting… lots of routes here really. ‘Big four’ and their competitors all offer graduate training schemes.

Investment banking jobs (I imagine you mean PE, M&A etc) you can access via the above, particularly small firms, as they like the accountancy experience.

Those I know who ended up in the big banks had perfect grades, Oxbridge or just below, summer internships etc.

If she’s interested in accounting the school leaver programmes are good - you get a degree, you are paid, have four years work experience by age 22. And - no student loan.

Do you know someone in law / accounting-related job she can go and do work experience in, as they’re quite different really.

I also think management consulting is a good route for bright people who aren’t very to their maths. Again you can do a degree in anything to do it (as long as you are bright and have excellent grades from a top uni).

@scrunchmum unfortunately not for her age group they have one open to a level students but she needs help choosing this 3rd a level!

Law has magic circle.

If she wants to go into law her a levels are fine and she will need a law degree. After that it is very competitive.

Investment banking has a number of roles. They need quantitative analysts (lots of maths, usually maths or physics degree sometimes plus phd), analysts/sales people (usually economics or finance degree but also need to be able to handle some maths).

They also have back office - programmers, admin people, HR etc. these are well paid for what they do but not specifically banking.

Mergers and acquisitions etc is usually law degree plus some economists.

All of these expect you to work 12 plus hour days and answer your phone at all hours of the day.

@MidnightPatrol if we knew the answers to those questions I wouldn't be asking 😂🤣

Accounting. Although I'm not magic circle - whatever that is!

I've spent my years in practice and now education. I've friends who are now at high level management positions in national companies and in the public sector. I managed to work part time as the children grew up and still earn a decent wage.

Whether you use Maths a lot depends on the role really. Whilst, in practice, I used Maths every day it was pretty simple Maths per se - it was knowing the legislation and rules that was complex.

If you went into actuarial work then I'd imagine the Maths content would be very different. Bookeeping is the start of the training and mainly software based now. The ACA is a very transferable skill so you'll find us in all sorts of places!

I spent a lot of time talking to clients and understanding their business strategy and discussing how they might achieve it. Communication was as important in my role as Maths.

Many unis in our experience (depending on the course) also offer reduced grades for two STEM subjects, but not one on its own.

If your DD definitely doesn’t want to do maths at A level she is likely to struggle with a career in investment banking. The competition for their graduate schemes is insane. My DH who works in that sector sees CVS from graduates all over the world - some with PhDs in maths/ further maths still don’t make it on to the grad scheme. I think y you should encourage your DD to do what interests her and broaden your definition of what a ‘big career’ can be, We have massive powerhouse creative industries in this country- museums, publishing, science and tech - it’s not all about law and banking! I did arts subjects and now work in a creative field in a job I love but still earn a very good salary. Good luck to your DD

Magic circle is law, big four is accounting / consultancy but they were coined at a very different time - perhaps more interesting well paid big jobs are in tech / science?

But to stand out for any big job — good grades, but also relevant personal interests and work experience. I’d agree the choice of uni, the grade and the activities/ contacts there are arguably more important than which a levels, so perhaps pick the ones they stand to get the best grades in and which make sense together. (Also what timetables with history and biology as she’s basically picking one humanities and one science and - at least when I did a levels- that made it hard to timetable.

Obviously my views don't count as this will be her choice but I can see her doing journalism or script polishing, something like that.
Her English is excellent but unfortunately she doesn't really want to do it at a level.

Watching with interest.
Any opinions on how AI might disrupt these jobs? I worry about accounting particularly.

She is very good at maths and is taking further maths however it's not something she particularly enjoys and wants to pursue and she's not in anyway gifted in it. She just gets it.

Magic circle refers to the top city law firms (followed closely by silver circle). The big four refers to the largest accountancy firms.

They are highly, highly stressful, competitive and demanding roles with ling hours. She will need excellent exam results in traditional academic subjects, a high 2:1 or a first from a top university, strong extra curricular activities and work experience and to be able to demonstrate in applications and interviews why age wants to work there. Not for the faint hearted.