BIG careers what are they? Magic circle accounting? Law? Helping dd choose a levels and future career.

[StuckintheRutt]

Hello my dd is choosing history and biology and is stuck as to what to choose for her next a level. She had no idea what to do for the 3rd.
Obviously her interest is history and biology and she's done very well in mocks with 8s and 9s predicted for all subjects...

She's considering pyscology, possibly chemistry, possibly English, possibly geography.

I was thinking if I can collate the big careers that may help.
Am I correct in magic circle accounting and does anyone know what you can do there eg I know bookkeeping and forensic accounting.... Is accounting interesting and is it maths pure..

Investment banking, how would she get in and are there equivalent to the magic circle. Same with law or is it law that has the magic circle 🤣..

What other big jobs, classic are there please and what's the way to get them what to aim for...

@MidnightPatrol the route to qualifying as a solicitor has changed in the last year or so. LPC has been replaced by SQE or the Apprentice scheme.

SQE works in a very different way to the LPC. OP, please research up to date routes via the SRA website and law firm graduate recruitment web pages as most posters here will be out of date unless currently involved in recruitment and training.

No need for a law degree by the way even for top level jobs, arguably another skill is more useful first and then go to law school. Also LPC is being phased out replaced with the SQE — the main takeaway though is that jobs are hard and competitive to get and if you can’t find someone willing to pay for it the qualifications are expensive.

I’d definitely keep options open with a levels and a degree rather than narrowing if she doesn’t have any idea yet.

Accountancy requires very little maths but lots of numeracy.

You don't need a specific degree for it, and you also don't need maths a level.

A lot of grads train as accountants and it's a good way to learn about business and finance. A lot of people springboard into senior roles in finance from it.

However, some of it can be very boring. If you are training you need to sit regular exams. Some of them are interesting, many of them are not and you need to memorise a lot of material.

Personally my pet hate is double entry bookkeeping.

For journalism subjects not so crucial (though English/ politics/ history all good ) she ideally needs a good degree from a good uni but also - much more importantly - tons and tons of work experience and proof that she is a massive self starter with an authentic interest in the media. Most who are successful getting places at the top journalism graduate schemes are young people who have started their own student newspapers, podcasts, YouTube channels etc from late teens, who know how to edit/ use tech, who have done work experience wherever they can get it - local papers radio etc- as well as student journalism.

Whilst some careers demand particular A levels and degrees, many do not. My daughter followed her heart and studied marine biology at uni. She did geography, English and biology at A level. Currently she works for a university In student services and is loving it. They are funding a Masters for her and she can see a clear career pathway. Her degree is essential to her role but not the marine biology aspect of it.

@StuckintheRutt Ok well if it was me I’d say:

• If she isn’t bothered by uni, the school leaver programmes from PWC, KPMG, EY, Deloitte are a great option IMO. End up with a degree, ACA qualified (or similar), big name experience. And no debt. You don’t need to stay in accounting - most people I know who did their training at these companies moved into other finance jobs (banking for example).

• If she thinks she might like law, she can study it directly. Any subjects are ok for A level AFAIK. The university is important though - law is an area where it’s become v popular to study and actually the highly paid jobs are only in X sectors. If she’s not totally set on law, she could do anything at all and then convert later on - many people do this. It costs money but you may have somewhere to do it locally.

• Otherwise, IMO a degree in anything from a Russell group university / top university and good grades leaves the door open to all these high earning careers. She would have to apply for all the grad schemes - accounting, management consultancy etc.

I would also say not to exclude other job type purely in favour of traditional professions / high earning roles. The world is changing - Fintech, software sales, cybersecurity roles can command massive salaries.

Two of my most successful friends started their careers on the L’Oreal and Mars grad schemes respectively, and are now enormously well paid. With her interest in biology a corporate career in a pharma company might interest her - my neighbour is ~40 and earning £250k at one of those big pharma companies (and does lots of cool travel).

Accounting is much more than bookkeeping. As mentioned by pp most ACA graduates are not accountants but are found everywhere, including at senior board levels in many FTSE companies. They are business partners and have a good understanding of finance to support clients and / or other senior execs with all sorts of things (pricing, profitability, cash flow to name a few).

I'd really recommend accounting and particularly ACA or CIMA. All businesses need accountants/finance professionals and many are in house, you can get involved in any industry you are interested in.

@thinkfast thank you.

Unless something goes drastically wrong she's definitely on track for top grades and hopefully a top uni and at least 2:1.

She's also a very self motivated person, she just gets on with it and always has, she works hard and I've never had to ask her to work or revise.
However, as her mum I can't see her enjoying something incredibly stressful, or fast paced.

But she may not find it stressful as she already works hard.

@scrunchmum that's very useful and a very good point by Ken re AI.

Bump

I work in investment banking operations but didn’t come in via a traditional route. All written A levels, history degree, no work experience. It took a few leaps but I’m now mid level senior and am handsomely paid for the area I work in (non London, regional office but still in the south).

Our grads generally come from local unis as they want people who want to stay in this area not use a stepping stone to London, any subject but whatever you do, get top grades. We’d look tor an interest in technology, an aptitude for problem solving and process improvement. Generally we all work 9-5 with some flexibility and appreciate a decent work life balance. Promotions driven by skill level in specialism so project management/processing/people management. Opportunities to earn biiig bucks for good talent in senior roles(multiple six figures outside of London).

If you want front office/sales in London then you need to be pickier with the uni, even better with the grades and have some numerical/STEM element. The work life balance is much tougher but the role will be 10000x more based on people skills so think about whether you are an extrovert/introvert, how much you want to be customer facing etc. Much bigger pay but promotions generally driven by meeting tough sales targets rather than numbers. You would need to be able to discuss and justify what parts of the business you find genuinely interesting e.g. M&A, equities, capital markets etc. Pay is stratospheric rather than just big once you climb the ladder.

95% of our grads are already picked by the time the applications open for full time roles… she will need to do “spring week” in her first year to get a taster, use that to get offered a place on the summer internship in year 2. The summer interns that do the best get most of the grad jobs- they’ve already done 15 weeks paid work for us, so it’s try before you buy.

Accountancy - Big 4
Law - Magic Circle
Investment Banking - Bulge bracket / tier 1 bank

Just helping with the lingo, OP 😜

Anyway, she does not need a maths degree to be an accountant or investment banker, but a solid, rigorous academic degree (History, Economics, Law, PPE, Physics, Maths, Engineering, Biology etc.) from a top university at 2:1 will set her up nicely. She should just study what she is interested it as this stage.

I think you're narrowing down in the wrong way. Don't look at big stressful careers, ask what motivates her - what does she want her job to involve, eg helping people, earning big money, being involved in politics/running things, working outside...
Then match a career. Then see what A levels/degree might help.

I'm an accountant (top 6 firm, previously big 4) and I agree that A level subjects themselves don't matter so much as the grades achieved. If going down the uni path, they're really looking for you to show that you're self-motivated and academically bright, as a training contract will involve c.3 years of night school whilst working full time to get your professional qualification.

As for what it involves, it's not at all pure maths and there are plenty of options. Graduate programs are usually for audit or tax (tax trainees always seem much happier than the auditors in my experience!), but there are other options too, like restructuring & recovery or corporate finance.

I work in restructuring (selling and turning around insolvent businesses) and the split is about 60% practical skills (decision making under pressure, dealing with unhappy people), 20% law (following statutory rules and sometimes taking legal action against directors) and 20% maths.

@MidnightPatrol that's very helpful thank you.

What does the friend at big pharma do please.

Accounting is a brilliant career and very varied. In some roles it's much more about stakeholder management than numbers, others almost legal in terms of analysing contracts and policies and then there's all the bookkeeping. But there are so many routes in. I did business and languages, got a job as a junior accounting clerk, did the exams at night. I have a senior role now in tech and the Finance people got here so many different ways. Many in the US aren't even accountants, they did MBA instead. So I would instead focus on what she loves. Get a great degree in what she enjoys. She can always apply to the graduate programs or start out in an entry level role and study at night if she wants to shift to accounting. Engineering is another study that sees people end up all over place in good jobs because the logic and process mindset is so valuable.

The thing is, these days people generally don’t make career decisions at 16! Rather than trying to shoehorn her into a particular field, encourage her to take A levels in subjects she is interested in.

My DS did History and Biology A levels along with Eng Literature. He's currently in his second year studying law.

DS did an accountancy degree sponsored by the big four. He had lower student expense as a result and his paid placements contributed experience hours for his chartering. It was 4 years. He is now 24 and on what seems to be a ridiculous amount of money.

I would say you need to be bright rather than gifted, and to work very hard. Personal skills are important too. He does a lot about business as he’s an auditor.

Going back to your original question, I’d say that she can’t go wrong with Maths, as long as she is confident she can maintain her academic achievement in it for the jump to A level.

As a pp said, she needs A and A* in academically rigorous subjects to get her the kind of degree that opens the doors to the “big jobs”, and that A level combo is going to give her access to the right kind of degree. But it would be a shame to miss out by getting a lower grade.

Maths is definitely seen favourably by law recruiters, the analytical thinking is perfect. She will need to keep up her writing and comprehension skills but history will be good for that and the type of scientific writing needed in biology is also great.

So I’d say maths, history and biology would be great for keeping her options very wide open. Good luck!

You don’t need a degree. My DSD is a chartered accountant and she did it via an apprenticeship straight from school. Why end up in £50K+ of debt when you can be paid a good wage while you’re training? For context, she was on a £45K salary before she even qualified, and then got a hefty pay rise once she’d qualified.

For a future career in law, I'd say that at A level stage, the important thing is strong academic performance in an academic subject. So your DD should pick subjects she is interested in and good at and not worry too much about future career plans.

Also, encourage her to get work experience in as many areas as possible. It will help her work out what she does not want to do if nothing else. The day to day realities of some of these jobs is very different to what you study.

Consulting is another big job. Boston consulting and the like.

They have mixed reviews on what it’s like to work in these fields; similar to law and investment banking. Very high pressure.

I would look at AI proofing too. As far as I can tell; finding something niche and incredibly complicated (ie. Partially subjective), and mixing that with something else niche and complicated will pretty much guarantee ai proof. So working in the intersections between jobs.

So all design that’s multidisciplinary. Compliance, people or project management, research. Healthcare. So psychology (healthcare career), evolutionary biology (research/teaching), medical compliance, something green? Farming technologies (regenerative farming research), biodiversity architect (new biodiversity net gain field falls between gap in landscape architect and ecologist).

Something dual basically is my suggestion.

Lifecycle Analysis and Sustainability are increasingly becoming a focus for the big consultancies and businesses of all size. It's genuinely interesting and probably very lucrative.

Maths, geography (or environmental studies) and chemistry would be a great combo.

But why are these the ‘big, obvious jobs’, when it’s clear you know nothing about them either? And you say you see her doing ‘something like journalism or script polishing’, but then say she’s not keen on doing English at A level? But you say she’s not keen on maths either.

I’m just trying to get you to think about your reasoning here. I have a First from Oxford, but didn’t dream of taking any of those routes, though some of my cohort did.