> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

My DIL had a relatively newly qualified nanny for several years for her two girls, she lived in which made it a bit less expensive. Once the eldest started school it was cheaper to send the youngest to nursery, and the lovely nanny was able to move on to a better paid job once she had the experience.
I know that my DIL was spending a huge proportion of her salary on childcare, but it was worth it as she had an excellent employer who gave her regular pay rises. She reckons that just taking basic maternity leave each time has meant that she is earning significantly more now.
Nurseries are insanely expensive, my DD (a single parent working FT) used one for two years which used to suddenly impose a price increase with virtually no notice. There are nurseries attached to local primary schools but most of them are not full time so of absolutely no use to a full-time working parent.

You can have a gap of less than 4 years, you have your second when 1st is 2 or over. Take a year off with both at home and then your eldest will receive 15 hours funded when you return to work. Which helps if nothing else.

You'll get 15 hours free regardless of how much you earn. However it's 15 hours just for term time spread over the whole year so only saves about £300 a month

I’m a childminder ( in a London commuter town by the way, and housing is much more affordable here than I suspect you think, especially if you’re selling a house in London to buy it!) and you don’t need a big house. I childmind from my living room and garden which are very normal sized, I used to live in a tiny two bed terraced and still did childminding. I would consider it if I were you, the issue would be getting the course done in time to start when you came back from maternity. But childminding can be lucrative, especially if childcare spaces are sparse which they seem to be from what you’ve said.
if I were you I’d investigate it if I were you, and just see if it’s something you might be interested in. I suspect not because you seem to be invested in your career, but it would definitely make your life and your finances much easier.

We used to pay £3.5k for nursery for 2 kids. At your age I would wait and do a 3 year age gap so that you won’t have any cross over. I’ve got a 2 year age gap for both my kids so 1.5 years was both in full time nursery. Both of us are high earners so we still made more money after paying for the nursery but most of my wages - the husband earns more than me - went towards nursery. I don’t regret spending that money but if I had a choice I would have waited. I only wanted 1 child so my 2nd was a “happy accident”.
Nannies are expensive and not as reliable. I did think of it but it’s hard to find the right nanny. We had one for a couple of months and it just didn’t work out.

Surely it would be cheaper to give up work?

its so rubbish isn’t it? Can you go back to work part time until your eldest goes to school? This is what I did as it was costing me more to go to work so I made the decision to work part time to still have a foot in the door for when kids reach school age

I completely sympathise. I was living in London when I had mine and was an older mum. I had them 2.5 years apart and managed by working a compressed week. 33 hours in 3.5 days, so I maximised my earning hours when they were at nursery. Not sure if it’s something you can do in your field? It was cheaper to not work a day and a half and have them home, then work and pay for nursery.

Such an expensive time at that age but you will get your entitled 30 hours free soonish. Meanwhile, any local childminders? They are more competitive cost wise? X

Not if you pay cash. I used to live on a street full of people on a shared income of 200k+ a yr. They all had a live in nanny/house keeper who they paid 800pcm to. They all seemed to know a network of them and when one left, it was easy to replace them. None of them had cars and they’d make their dinner after the family. They had the house to themselves during the day and until the kid/s got home around 4.30/5ish.

I'm in the US and several people I know have started cooperative child care. By pooling their resources they essentially have a private child care. The parents and grandparents contribute time to the effort.

We had to wait a year longer than we originally planned to get pregnant with our second because we couldn’t really afford two lots of nursery fees. Looks like that would be your only way around it.

i guess you both earn over £100,000 if you do then it won’t make any difference but obviously the year you are on maternity leave (unless you get a full year paid) you’d be on less than 100k so you could qualify for the free childcare that year? worth looking into.

Au Pairs are also significantly cheaper than nursery and private nanny’s but it’s a bit of a task finding a good one who fits in with your family.

Alternatively, one of you takes a hit on your career for a couple of years and goes part time to accommodate childcare and a lesser nursery bill.

Not legal in the UK. You either operate as a registered, inspected business as a nursery or childminder or you work as an employee in a parent's home as a nanny. You could set up your own nursery, but you're subject to the exact same costs and regulations as any private nursery. You have to be OFSTED inspected and follow the EYFS and have DBS checked staff.

I also don't really see most people being keen on leaving their very young DC with someone else's random parent or grandparent who isn't DBS checked or trained.

Not in the long term since expensive nursery fees are mainly when they are under 2. It would mean OP losing her earning potential too which potentially means less money in the long run, not more.

OP can take the hit of nursery fees for a few years and be earning more by the end of it if she continues to progress and then be better off financially when nursery fees are no longer needed.

Childcare swaps are legal in the UK if money doesn't change hands.

There was a bonkers case over a decade ago where two police women were prosecuted for looking after each other's children on opposite shifts. This was so obviously mad that a specific exception was made to the law on childcare registration.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/744/made

Highly unlikely to be relevant to the OP of course, normally useable by parents who work part time.

I am shocked at the cost of Nurseries and the salaries of Nannies. When I was a nanny the pay was terrible. How do people earn enough to pay these fees or salaries.

OP check out the calculator on the nanny tax website - Nanny price seems high to me.

But even if it is the same or more than nursery trust me - you should get a nanny over nursery, especially once you have 2 kids. You cannot put a price on knowing that the nanny can take the kids when sick (one vomiting episode = 48 hrs nursery exclusion), can do household tasks, no need to worry about pick ups and drop offs, one secure consistent caregiver for your kids. With a stressful job and long hours you need more bespoke childcare support. Your elder child can still get socialisation through the free hours once eligible and the nanny can do all the pick ups and drop offs for that. Don’t write it off.

Our nanny is excellent and £16/h gross in London btw.

It's a while since I had two in nursery. I had a 2 year gap. But I do know we were effectively down to one wage for a few years while they were tiny. We both earned pretty much the same then. Think I was still mainscale teacher without responsibility then.

However, the big pay out was only until the eldestb started school, but it meant that I was able to keep my career moving and now out earn dh significantly.

I think you have two options given what you've said. A) Suck it up for a few years and cut back on everything. It sucks but it's what most do. If you're paying a nanny wage in nursery fees, an actual nanny probably provides more value. For a year after my 2nd maternity leave my wages only made me £300 a month after childcare costs. It's like saving up to pay for a house extension, staying in work is an investment! B) You both reduce your hours/increase pension contributions etc so you can get your salaries below £100k.

Our nursery fees were £1700 and there were sibling discounts. I'm zone 2 in London and looked at quite a few nurseries so the OPs rates seem high to me.

Fees will drop slightly after 2 but in the meantime, it's a case of living within your means knowing it'll be tight for a couple of years. As I suspect is the case for most people.

What about the free hours that people are entitled to - 30 for 2year olds and over . They are then rolling it out and extending it to younger than 2 .
I may have read it incorrectly but they are trying to address people not being able to afford to work due to childcare !

An Au Pair cannot provide sole full-time childcare for a baby/young child. Anyone who does this is an exploitative arsehole.

Childminder? I’m in London and pay £60 per day. I’m sure most would give a 2 kid discount. Mine lives 2 roads away so it’s really handy, and helps with the transition to school as she does pick ups too!

Consider using an au pair with the older one going in to nursery a reduced number of days. Can try out aupair World,that is of course if you have room in your home to house them. They are much more reasonable price wise.