> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

If you're losing childcare benefits as well as your personal allowance then yes it can be an effective tax rate of 90/100%

We had four at nursery with only five years between the youngest and the eldest. It was more than the cost of our mortgage, and ate the equivalent of my salary, but it was still worth it because we both continued to progress,, my pension was paid, and we kept a good credit record. We peaked with three full time and one at after school club. We just had to take the long view. We don't live in London, though, so life isn't quite as expensive as it could be.

If you're talking about a company pension and missing out. Can't you just take out another private pension?

@justasking111 this article explains the 90% marginal tax rate situation well www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2022/10/04/marginal/

It's really hard to have two high flying career parents. I think one of you should really look at a sideways move if your jobs are so inflexible.

It's not just nursery, once they start school, apart from the obvious holidays you'll need childcare for, there are often times when one or both parents are invited for an afternoon with their children. If you can never go, that's unfair on your child.

Then you can consider compressed hours or similar.

Your friend would not have been “paying to go to work.” Childcare costs are a household expense so unless she was a single parent they would have been a shared expense which her partner would also have been responsible for. You never hear men saying childcare costs mean they are “paying to go to work”. Thinking in terms of her “paying to go to work” implies that a woman is solely responsible for childcare which is obviously not the case.

I was paying to go to work - my nursery fees were more than I was earning. And although you have a point, as it would have been me who would have stayed at home with the kids as an alternative- which is still the most common scenario - it is a claim that is upheld. If you want it phrased another way though, childcare cost more than either one of us earned and we would have been financially better off if one of us (either of us!) had stopped working.

I obviously don't know what OP or her DH do but for both DH and I, we might not be able to go part time or officially compress our hours but we are able to have flexibility in other ways such as I'm able to manage my own diary which means I can often pick up DS from nursery early if nothing important is going on and I'm also able to WFH the majority of the time. This will mean that if I continue as I am, by the time DS starts school, I will have even more flexibility and will likely be able to pick him up daily.

A sideways move or going part time would mean losing that flexibility, not to mention the progression I've worked incredibly hard for.

@SouthLondonMum22

This sounds pretty much exactly like me.

I manage my own diary. I can go to an afternoon event, do the odd school pick up mid afternoon, go to sports day. That’s all easy.

Consistently reducing my hours by 20% by doing four days… more difficult, particularly to retain seniority.

Interesting to hear you say pretty much exactly what I think about flexibility in my own job and what’s valuable within the context of that!

The company also pays into pension usually

I asked earlier and I appreciate you may not want to answer but what are the nursery hours and what do you do.

I agree with @GoodThinking

It might not be what you want to hear but that's the obvious solution.

I've never been "lucky". My kids will get every bug going. I would never sustain those costs and work at that level.

What happens now if child is sick. Have you had a bad go with bugs?

What would you do if goodness forbid child wasn't coping?

And I say that as a mum if four, two adopted, and one who works in early years and settles children, yet has had the week from your worst nightmares with my youngest and nursery. Calls every half hour due to distress.

I think there's definitely a misunderstanding that high paying senior roles = no flexibility, missing every sports day and children in nursery all day, every day.

I'm sure that's the case within some industries of course but in plenty, it actually means more flexibility in many ways, not less.

There's no way I'd give it up unless it was truly the last resort but even then, I'm the higher earner so it would be DH, not me.

Yes - I’m at board level and do the school run most mornings, never miss a play or sports day, excuse myself to attend loads of extra meetings for DS who has additional needs, I’m a school governor etc. But I can only move the workload around, not reduce it, so it’s flexible but not shrinkable.

Please don’t (as was suggested upthread) pay a huge chunk of nursery fees upfront. They are all teetering on the financial brink and if yours was to go under, you’ll be absolutely screwed for childcare and massively out of pocket with minimal to no chance of recovering your pre-payment:

@SouthLondonMum22@MidnightPatrol Same here. The advantage we got my staying on at work was that as we moved up, we were able to sort out our own work patterns. We collected our children, went to school events, were on the PTA, helped at Forest School, and took our children to their clubs. We sometimes made up time in the evenings or at weekends, but we had a great deal of flexibility.

…and yes, the company paid a big wedge into my pension.

It really just varies from industry to industry - I agree that senior roles do come with more flexibility, mine definitely does. But my career progression hasn't been hit at all by working 4 days a week. My boss also works 4 days, her bosses are a job share. It's just the way my sector is

They're not allowed to do that, but you'll find you need your pay for "small group activities" and "phonics / school readiness" ... all things that they need to do as part of the EYFS but they'll say it's extra etc.

Holy hell are people actually paying that much? I pay £1000 a month for my 2 year old and that expensive to me but £4000 id rather be a stay at home parent.

Even if you earnt double the childcare fees like op/dh do

Wait an extra year.

Our DC is one, I'm going to have a three year gap. Then a year of mat leave - then it will only be a year, or less, of double nursery fees. Which you can just not save or use savings for for that year

im not sure of what your reasons are when u say you are not eligible for 30 hours. If you earn more than 100k I would reduce both incomes to £99k through pension pot. U will qualify for 30 hours of u do that. You can put £60k into pensions every year. That should help when kids are very young. U will get through this period of condensed earnings. I do not think it’s wise to reduce your hours or stop working. The impact on return to work is too huge. Once kids are in reception and in state school u can start putting less into pension if u wish.

That seems quite a lot. Have you explored child minders. My BIL had 2 in at one point and it cost more like £2000 per month.
I live in London too so premium prices here too.

this may be controversial I know and I’m sorry in advance but life is a bit of sacrificing unfortunately and it’s a case of figuring out what matters to you. everyone regardless of their gender or social status has to make those decisions and sacrifices even before the cost of living crisis and high inflation.

Do you want your career does your partner want theirs are either of you able to change or delay career paths?, do you want the 2nd child sooner rather than later?, do you want to live where you are with the higher mortgage and living expenses?

unfortunately there are only a very small amount of people who do have it all but no doubt at some point they had to make tough decisions, delay plans ect to get where they are now.

you’re not going to find a parent who hasn’t made a sacrifice so I guess answer to your question, the parents paying upward of 4,500k in nursery fees are somewhere changing plans, sacrificing something in order to have what they have.

it’s particularly tough atm, it doesn’t feel morally right that someone should chose paying bills or career over delaying children, but this isn’t new it has been the case for generations 🤷🏻‍♀️

Could you work remotely and move? Drastic but I know 2 families with a child in my daughter’s class who have moved to N Ireland from London. Still doing their London jobs but commuting (1.5hr on plane) and working hybrid. Childcare and prep school (amazing Wraparound care flexible between 7.45am and 6pm for free for p1 and p2 in our school then capped for the day at £12.50).
No “free 30 hours” childcare in n Ireland but it sounds like you don’t qualify anyway so wouldn’t make a difference.
Here a childminder costs £42 for the day for one child but you can find a babysitter / part time nanny. My part time nanny does 3 afternoons / evenings at £10 p/hr for 3 x children.

Lifestyle-wise it’s very different - you can buy a 5 bedroom house with a big garden for the price of a London flat… one of the families I mentioned above bought a £900k 7 bedroom house with 26 acres, stables etc
Never far from a beach, forest walks, national trust properties etc, still connected with international airports etc.

Just food for thought - why not look around you at other life options and how the various elements would work out eg moving to the north of England / Scotland / n Ireland etc?

Every 3 year old gets 15 hours funded and have done for at least 15 years. You don’t need to be eligible. Posters are saying that most people time their children do that when returning to work after their second maternity leave their eldest receives the 15 hours (at least, if you’re both working they should receive 30 hours) funded.

I’m 39 now and currently pregnant…it’s been my healthiest and easiest pregnancy so far with vastly less complications than my pregnancy at 25. Also my age hasn’t been mentioned once by any hcps.