Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

What makes you neurotypical? Or neurodivergent ? I'm curious how you can tell ?

51 replies

Divinespark · 12/01/2024 08:13

That's the chat really? I can see how some are on the spectrum but not others? Same with ADHD

OP posts:
TomeTome · 12/01/2024 10:34

TigerRag · 12/01/2024 10:31

I understood perfectly well.

As there is no "look" you can't tell.

Correct, the diagnosis is what makes you part of that descriptor, as I said in my original post.

TinkerTiger · 12/01/2024 10:44

What is the point of this post? Seems a bit 'not in the spirit'

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 12/01/2024 10:51

I didn't bring "normal" into this. My posts have been in reaction to the usual predictable type of post that pops up on this type of thread about neurodiversity: someone decides to start opining on how nobody's actually normal anyway.

Yes, in one sense, nobody's "normal". But OP didn't ask about "being normal". OP asked about neurodivergence and neurotypicality, and predictably, somebody came in to confuse matters by conflating "being neurotypical" with "feeling like you're normal", thereby dismissing the whole concept of neurodivergence. And a whole load of people jump on to agree.

Thing is, I'm not even disputing the possibility that ND might, as well as a disability movement, currently be functioning as a fashionable bandwagon, one that some people who are just "not normal" in the same way that everybody's "not normal" have jumped on, for whatever reason — mistaken, following their herd, confused, attention-seeking, troubled, impressionable, seeking companionship, whatever. Definitely possible. But that's not what was being argued or implied with the routine "nobody's normal" post. What's being argued and implied is that neurotypical = normal, nobody's normal, therefore everybody's neurodivergent, therefore all those people who come under the "neurodivergent" label are no different from anyone else, and should stop whining and labelling themselves and asking for special treatment.

Nosleepforthismum · 12/01/2024 11:21

It’s an interesting question OP. I have no idea how adults know if they are NT or ND. I’ve only just started to learn about all this as there are some flags that my DS may be autistic and it makes me question my own behaviour. What I find interesting is that literally every single person I know has stuff they struggle with, have their own coping mechanisms, “mask” in work or social situations they find uncomfortable and none of these people have any kind of diagnosis. I can see why there are some people that say things like “we are all a little autistic” because there are a lot of traits that are used to diagnose autism that are also found in NT people as well. My limited knowledge though is that there needs to be a number of these traits to qualify for a diagnosis. I often wonder if being neurodiverse is actually the norm and there are just lots of undiagnosed people around.

ssd · 12/01/2024 12:12

Yes, maybe we are all neurodiverse and some are more than others. And some need more help than others.
We all mask to an extent, its those who can't mask who need the help.

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:38

I'd imagine obviously it's different for many people but for me I always felt that the things other people seem to find easy, I find hard and the things I find easy, they find hard!

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:40

How can you tell about yourself?

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:41

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 12/01/2024 09:55

You might if you weren't it.

Agree

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 12/01/2024 12:44

ssd · 12/01/2024 12:12

Yes, maybe we are all neurodiverse and some are more than others. And some need more help than others.
We all mask to an extent, its those who can't mask who need the help.

Yes, we are all neurodiverse. That's the bloody point. Neurodiversity is about all the different types of brains and ways they can work.

We are not all neurodivergent, unless you want to utterly redefine the meaning of "neurodivergent". In which case, you'd be taking away a useful and unique term that's important to a disadvantaged group of people who have found a great deal of utility in it, and turning it towards… what useful end?

I'm not even that bloody fond of the neurodiversity paradigm, FFS. But I at least have the empathy to see that it's emotionally and politically important to others, and has even facilitated progress in some areas. Why would you want to dilute it to utter uselessness?

If what you actually want is to identify those who "need the help" (however you're defining help — many people would benefit from even fairly small adjustments and accommodations, which may not even require extra effort or money), and you're defining "those who need the help" as those who cannot ever conceivably pass for normal, then what do you propose doing with people who are currently diagnosed with one of the ND conditions but who don't pass the ssd sniff test?

I mean, we've seen what happens when these conditions haven't been formulated, or go undiagnosed. The prisons are full of us, the unemployment books are full of us, the mental health services are full of us, we fall short of our potential, we die in accidents and kill ourselves from despair, we disrupt your children's classes, we have road accidents, we cause confusion and resentment in others, we attract assaults and other attacks, it's all a bit of a mess, right? We've tried that, so maybe we can try the approach where we recognise that for certain individuals identified by qualified professionals, what you may be fooled by as a limited performance of "normality" is actually a high-effort and often counterproductive veneer over specific sets of difficulties.

(I know some people with ND conditions can have happy, successful lives without identification/recognition/diagnosis, or any kind of overt or official "help" or adjustments, but many don't.)

Are you advocating reserving help only for those who are manifestly unacceptably abnormal, and everyone else who would currently receive a diagnosis under the ND umbrella being told, well, everybody's neurodiverse, so everybody's neurodivergent, and everybody struggles and masks, so suck it up buttercup, you're no different to anybody else? Because I can't work out what else your post might mean.

Or do you just want to sneer at people that they're not as special as they think they are, and get away with it because after all you're only discussing philosophical aspects of semantics and taxonomy within a field that's a matter of public interest, or some equally specious tripe?

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:45

Naptrappedmummy · 12/01/2024 10:13

If you think there's no such thing as normal (in a "neurodiversity" context), then maybe you're just not one of those people who's been repeatedly told and shown throughout their lives that there is a normal, has to be, because whatever normal is, whatever "acceptable" is, You're Not It

I disagree.

For that to be true there would have to be majority of people who are ‘normal’ and feel normal. There isn’t. What you’re referring to is generalised life pressure which mainly comes in the form of marketing schemes, toxic social media and so on. Not real people living ‘normal’ lives that somehow you cannot attain.

No, there doesn't. There has to be neurodiverse people who recognise they are fundamentally different to most people.

PurpleOrchid42 · 12/01/2024 12:46

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 12/01/2024 10:10

This "there's no such thing as normal" stuff is irritating. It's like a combination of the fish not understanding what water is thing, those English people who think there's no such thing as English culture, and the "I don't see colour, aren't we all just the human race" white people thing.

If you think there's no such thing as normal (in a "neurodiversity" context), then maybe you're just not one of those people who's been repeatedly told and shown throughout their lives that there is a normal, has to be, because whatever normal is, whatever "acceptable" is, You're Not It. In other words, maybe you're so normal you can't even see what normal is, like the English person who doesn't see that so much of what they take for granted as universal is actually part of English culture.

YES. Anyone saying otherwise is ignorant of the facts. Do some reading, watch some documentaries.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 12/01/2024 12:46

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:38

I'd imagine obviously it's different for many people but for me I always felt that the things other people seem to find easy, I find hard and the things I find easy, they find hard!

I think that sums up how I feel too.

Lots of people genuinely can't comprehend why I have such incredible difficulty with things that they find so very easy.

But equally, they're ridiculously impressed by certain things that seem really basic to me.

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:47

TigerRag · 12/01/2024 10:15

How? Neurodiversity doesn't have a particular look!

You've clearly never heard of masking

Edited

They mean if the person told them they had a diagnosis for example.

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:48

Naptrappedmummy · 12/01/2024 10:16

Can you give examples? Because again virtually everyone I know has had these experiences on some level. A general feeling of not fitting in, or having to try really hard to fit in.

The difference is as you say having this experience on 'some level'.

anythinginapinch · 12/01/2024 12:53

Thank you @Raxacoricofallapatorian, because I couldn't find the words and you did, wonderfully.

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:53

TigerRag · 12/01/2024 10:31

I understood perfectly well.

As there is no "look" you can't tell.

That was their point that there is no 'look'.

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:55

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 12/01/2024 10:51

I didn't bring "normal" into this. My posts have been in reaction to the usual predictable type of post that pops up on this type of thread about neurodiversity: someone decides to start opining on how nobody's actually normal anyway.

Yes, in one sense, nobody's "normal". But OP didn't ask about "being normal". OP asked about neurodivergence and neurotypicality, and predictably, somebody came in to confuse matters by conflating "being neurotypical" with "feeling like you're normal", thereby dismissing the whole concept of neurodivergence. And a whole load of people jump on to agree.

Thing is, I'm not even disputing the possibility that ND might, as well as a disability movement, currently be functioning as a fashionable bandwagon, one that some people who are just "not normal" in the same way that everybody's "not normal" have jumped on, for whatever reason — mistaken, following their herd, confused, attention-seeking, troubled, impressionable, seeking companionship, whatever. Definitely possible. But that's not what was being argued or implied with the routine "nobody's normal" post. What's being argued and implied is that neurotypical = normal, nobody's normal, therefore everybody's neurodivergent, therefore all those people who come under the "neurodivergent" label are no different from anyone else, and should stop whining and labelling themselves and asking for special treatment.

Edited

Completely agree.

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:58

ssd · 12/01/2024 12:12

Yes, maybe we are all neurodiverse and some are more than others. And some need more help than others.
We all mask to an extent, its those who can't mask who need the help.

But masking is exhausting and then has a knock on effect on your life and your cooping skills. So it makes no sense to imply those who mask don't need help!

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 12/01/2024 13:08

UndertheCedartree · 12/01/2024 12:58

But masking is exhausting and then has a knock on effect on your life and your cooping skills. So it makes no sense to imply those who mask don't need help!

Absolutely. I think I mask pretty well most of the time. I doubt that many people I work with would guess that I'm neurodivergent, but the people I live with/am closest to see the immense toll that it takes on me. It's exhausting...

HalebiHabibti · 12/01/2024 13:18

A lot of ND people go through life wondering why people are looking at them funny, and thus concluding that there must be something wrong with them (i.e. the ND person).

I think the difference between NT and ND is in the reply you'd give to the questions: do you have to actively adjust your preferred natural behaviour on a daily/hourly basis so as to fit into general society? If so, is this is a small effort or a large one?

For me, it's yes and large (but lessening over time as I get older/more used to the unnatural behaviours I have been forced into).

Wednesdaysotherchild · 12/01/2024 13:33

I’m going to answer provocatively, because all these ‘just a label, everyone struggles’
comments annoy me.

From my experience*… ND people are usually nicer (kinder), funnier, zanier, more tolerant of people who don’t meet norms or who struggle with so-called simple things. They let the nonsense stuff a lot of NT people obsess about slide. They are often intelligent, more interesting and happy to converse on a diverse range of subjects in as much detail as willing, because they both take interest in things and are curious.

We often spot our own through some kind of strange magic and often group together without realising. It’s wonderful to just click with someone on the same wavelength when it isn’t a given! Even clashing ND neurotypes get each-other on some fundamental level because we understand difficulties and being misunderstood or different.

  • I am not talking about non-verbal, seriously disabled ND people as I don’t meet those and appreciate it is a very different state of being.
MrsVeryTired · 12/01/2024 13:44

Some good answers, the ND feeling is overwhelmingly the "not fitting in" feeling, struggling to find your way in life/your "people".

Waves at @Wednesdaysotherchild would you like to see pictures of my cat/dog/goldfish? 😸🐶🐟a random squirrel just because 🐿😁

Wednesdaysotherchild · 12/01/2024 13:45
Lets Go Yes GIF by CBS

@MrsVeryTired

SylvanianFrenemies · 12/01/2024 14:02

Anybody who meets the diagnostic criteria for a particular form of neurodiversity is neurodiverse.
They don't have to look or present in a particular way.

These kind of questions feel a bit "justify yourself"/"your problems aren't real". Anyway, I'll bite.

I have to work incredibly hard every day to do routine things that other people seem to manage without even thinking. And I still fail, I let people down, break things, forget important things. Not just once in a while but all the fucking time. I struggle to do easy things.

Conversely, I have a great mind for complex ideas and remember niche details from 35 years ago easily, which allows me to work in different ways.

B00kmark6525 · 12/01/2024 16:05

ssd · Today 12:12

“Yes, maybe we are all neurodiverse and some are more than others. And some need more help than others.
We all mask to an extent, its those who can't mask who need the help.”

No, quite the reverse, it’s well known how damaging masking is and how catastrophic it can be.

Swipe left for the next trending thread