Would you let your child refuse to do things?

[whatwouldyadoooo]

This is all a bit alien to me, as my kids (8 and 6) have never really refused to do something. They've moaned and whinged but I've always stuck to my guns and forced them to do something if I think it's in their best interest.
My 6 year old son has a best friend. His best friend refuses to do things he doesn't feel like doing and it's started to rub off on my son.
Examples - he refuses to do swimming lessons. They took him once, he kicked off and refused to get in so they told him he didn't need to do it (despite paying for the term his feet didn't touch the water)
We've had the boys booked into holiday clubs before and when we've got there DS best friend has refused to go in as he'd rather stay home on his PlayStation. His dad then needed to take the day off work.
He refuses to go to bed, so stays up until he falls asleep on the sofa and then gets carried to bed.
Am I being harsh making my kids do things they don't want to do.
DS friends parents say they shouldn't be made to do things they clearly don't want to do.
But my child needs to learn to swim, that's non negotiable. He needs to go to holiday club so I can work. He needs to go to bed so he can rest.
Note that DS friend is rugby and gaming mad so if the activity involves that he's there like a shot.
Now my DS is asking why he has to do things he doesn't want to do (like swimming lesson)
How do I explain it to him?

Thanks all. I don't feel so guilty now about making my children finish terms of activities and go to holiday club when they'd rather be sat at home!!! I'll stick to parenting my way.

I think they can refuse to do some things,yes. It's all about compromise. If them not wanting to do something isn't really a big deal, they didn't have to do it just because I said so.

Meh. I remember going to camps I hated as a kid but it was what it was. I survived. Wouldn’t worry about the comments.

Someone told me the other day they thought daycares were ‘children factories’ and she’d never dream of sending her kids to one. Not all of us have the luxury of getting private nannies or not working.

Each parent does things differently and I think sometimes kids will just have to do things they don’t want to do, tough luck.

Things like holiday club and bed time, no, not optional. Swimming I would not insist on, I can't get worked up about swimming lessons.

I think you are doing fine . Sometimes good to give children a choice of a few things (where you are happy with all the outcomes) so they learn to make choices. But the things you describe def stick with it. Also when older friends letting teenagers opt out of all family visits and activities. leads to kids that cant speak to adults and missing out on family life (once pulled away from phone game or friends now and again is good) some agency is important but they shouldn't rule the roost

If my ds didn't want to learn to swim I'd shelve the idea and revisit it in 6 months or so. So on that front yabu.

I've seen an instructor grab a young child and physically place him in the water while he screamed petrified and trust me it was hideous. Can really do some damage imo and make them hate it. It's not worth it.

This. I have two ND kids. You simply cannot make them do things in the way you can with NT kids.

In all these examples my children would have been made to go.

We recently had one of these conversations with DS (13) who didn't want to go to the family NY dinner. He was given shirt shrift and reminded its once a year and sometimes being part of a family means taking part in things you don't want to do, especially for older relatives as it means a lot to them.

DS(9) always does what he’s told. He might need telling three times, he might forget and do something else, he might whinge a bit. But ultimately he knows what we say goes. But ALSO he knows that we’d never force him to do something he was frightened of or upset about or very strongly didn’t want to do. It’s give and take with constant dialogue (not to sound awfully corporate!).

I’m aware this might not always be the case and while we have always had pretty firm boundaries (not especially strict per se, just clear and firm) I know that a different child might not have reacted in the same way to how we parent.

I did have bother with my youngest with swimming, it took a few weeks of some tears, lots of reassurance, making sure he could see us when he was in the pool, lots and lots of praise, and a visit to the cafe afterwards!

I don't do unnecessary things I dislike. I wouldn't make a child do an unnecessary thing they disliked.

I learned to swim when I was ready (10 or 11 years old). In my 30s, I swam 3 times a week, 1000 metres each time. DS is 5 and has no interest. That's fine by me. He'll learn when he's ready. The same with riding a bike.

For me, it's more important to focus on building strong numeracy and literacy foundations.

Say ‘we will have this conversation when you are 16’
and you can then gloat about the lovely disciplined lad you have raised vs the spoilt little 💩, result of namby pamby child led parenting.

This. We discuss it, DC has to try things. The alternative can't be devices etc.

For example she doesn't want to go to a fitness class we booked. Fine, it was a trial. She will go, try it, see if it suits. If it doesn't she will suggest something that meets our requirements; cardio, out of the house. We wouldn't force her to do to ten sessions. Equally, she can't just sit at home on the iPad.

I am with you - especially in the case of your examples. I have a 7 and almost 6 year old. DC1 is as you describe yours, chilled and always willing to do any activity. DC2 was sent to challenge me! They will readily refuse activities and instructions but some things are non-negotiable. We will always explain why we want them to continue.

Holiday clubs are essential because we need to work - like you, I will look for an alternative club if there is one they aren't keen on but they have both been told that we need money for all the things they like and we both work to earn that money. Swimming lessons are also non-negotiable at that age. I didn't force them when under 5 because I did not want to be giving a screaming child to a stranger but we have explained for them to enjoy holidays and swim with friends, they need to learn.

For clubs in general, I ask if they want to start something, we have the trial and if they choose to sign up, they need to see it through for the term.

DS friends parents say they shouldn't be made to do things they clearly don't want to do.

What, like get up on time, wash, go to school, eat a reasonably nutritious diet, do their homework, make at least a half-arsed attempt to tidy up after themselves, be polite to other people?

Never got the mumsnet obsession with swimming lessons. We go swimming, we take holidays in places where there are pools, in the villa, hotel, complex. The kids can swim - one did the mile challenge at our local pool. Not had any lessons, just fun family activity from an early age.

We didn't make our kids attend stuff as such, but if they asked to do something, then they stuck with it til the next payment was due. Usually up to a month. Karate they both loved and stayed through all the belts and til the karate place became more of a fitness and kickboxing "studio", gymnastics they both hated, one did 6 weeks, the other lasted one. Piano was a keeper for one to grade 6, the other did it til exams were suggested, then no thank you....

In general no I don't allow my child to call the shots. Learnt that through my stepchildren who only do what they want when they want. My stepchildren will play rugby and be filthy but when asked to shower or bath afterwards so they don't stink and get mud all over the sofa and floor me and my husband are met with 'it's my body and my choice' because their mother believes it's their choice. Same goes when asking if they've put deodorant in so they don't get bullied and they stink they say the same thing. They refuse to eat any homemade meal because 'it's their choice' and insist on having frozen food at a time that suits them quite often separately. We can't go for days out or out for a meal without them because they will outright say comments like 'this is fucking shit' and again when asked not to swear in a restaurant we are met with more comments of ' it's my life and my choice'. They are teens and have no regard for anyone else but themselves and are just spoilt teens who can't be told no. Their mother is now tearing her hair with their behaviour out and they are horrible to her but me and DH do stick to our guns and although we are met with the above comments and often tantrums they do eventually get in the shower etc
What I'm trying to say is don't find out the hard way. Obviously don't force them to play violin for 8 years and hate it but if they choose something and they don't like it after trying then they need to try something else

Yeah I’m all about the happy medium. My youngest is autistic he would literally never do anything if we didn’t bribe encourage him. We just try to keep things routine and then there is less fuss once you get over the start up hurdle. Our 2 older children have refused stuff over the years but we have made them give it a fair crack of the whip before giving in. Once they did that we were happy enough. Swimming was absolutely non negotiable though it is a life skill and can be a matter of life or death.

I generally don’t use physical force so theoretically they can refuse to do things.

Why did you make him finish martial arts the money was spendt either way. All you did was made your ds miserable. And no being a parent doesn't always mean knowing best.

YANBU and my DCs are late teens now so I reckon I can say this. If you let them just go with what they feel like right now, their comfort zone gets smaller and smaller. It doesn't make them more comfortable or confident, it does the opposite. Childhood has to be about experiencing and getting used to a wide range of activities and environments. Not all of them will turn out to be favourites, but some of them will and people return to others later in life. That's at least as much the case if the family is ND. I've seen younger kids being done huge disfavour by being allowed to decide to do less and less, and those are the ones who are quickly depressed and needing anxiety meds. Conversely some great parents supporting kids to get into scouts and sports and all kinds of activities that aren't immediately comfortable for them but are rewarding in the medium/long run, and stimulating their interest in new things, and helping them to feel confident doing things they didn't immediately want to try.

I try to ask mine why they don't want to - but not always practical...overtired younger ones saying "but I dont WAAAAAANT to" are beyond reasoning with, and you just need to go with "tough, we all have to do things we dont like" or "thats fine, you can tidy your bedroom instead" as needed.
However, IMO good for them to have the insight of CBA, or too cold or too scary or a bit dull or hoping for more fun somewhere else, or whatever. So, "why are you not wanting to go to swimming tonight?" answer "its too cold!" Or "I'm too tired" which can be sorted out (eg Oodie and hot chocolate afterwards). Im also keen for mine to learn to risk-assess for themselves: so if they said "I dont want to, its scary" then it opens the door to discussing if something is safe or if it can be made safer. Having seen the aftermath of 18-year-old man crashing his mums car, its something I want my DC to be able to do.

Going to bed or childcare is pretty non-negotiable so I wouldn’t have let them opt out.

If they didn’t want to do cubs, football or swimming lessons or something like that, I wouldn’t force them to those though. I took mine swimming myself and taught them when they were little-they never had lessons except the odd term at school but they could already swim by then.

Maybe I’m showing how lazy /old school I am as a parent but if I’ve paid for a class you are going and I’d be distancing my DS from that friend 😬😬😬

For the things you deem essential, you just give a light hearted child-friendly explanation "eating healthy food will give you more energy to do fun things... like avoid my tickling you!!!" or "you need to go to your lesson because when you can swim you will be safer around water - my job is to keep you safe. And once you can swim you could try jumping in off the side, a water slide, diving, canoing, kayaking, sailing, surfing....".

Unless dc actually says "my friend doesnt have to" then you dont need to go down the road of comparing them to you.