"but she's your mum!..." Dysfunctional families

[HiHiHey]

I grew up in a dysfuntional household, resulting in comlicated (low contact) family relationships to this day .
I want to preffice this by saying that at my current state after lots of years of therapy/work I can deal 'well' with my situation. I'm don't want to sound like I don't think people should discuss/express their good relationships with their families, or paint myself as a victim

However, here's a few things that I have experienced/ found difficult:

• I had a 'friend' at secondary school who outcast me from a friendship group because 'there must be something wrong with me I cant get on with my mum'
• I have traveled solo a lot since I was 19, often the first question I get when discussing it is 'are your parents okay with that?'
• Events/times of the year when there's an expectation of family closeness are stressfull and can be upsetting. I have been quized about why i'm not visiting 'home' on christmas etc.
• with some aquaintences/ colleagues people I've tried to get closer with, upon discussing some of the very surface levels of my struggles I'll get met with things like "but she's your mum she loves you..." or "all families fight sometimes..." , "you only have one mum/dad..."
• I see things like this a lot in the media as well, on here, other sm platforms, tv etc... people being at best misunderstood, at worst judged for their 'decission' to have no/little relationship with family members

Lots of these experiences are with people i don't know too well, and while I do have close friends who know and understand my experiences, I'm not comfortable/willing/don't want to explain the ins and outs of my traumatic history.
I also understand that, for the most part, lots of these interactions come from a good place, people trying to empathise etc, but I cant say they hevent been dificult to deal with in the past. Nor do I blame people for reacting in these ways per se, I think we'er taught to assume people have 'normal' family relationships.
Navigating life when you come from a dysfuntional family is hard, and this isn't helped by the fact that others often don't posess the tools and awarness of that, or make assumptions that most people have a 'normal' family.

Does anyone else feel the same way/had similar experiences when they've disclosed complicated family relationships?

It is not others wishing to project guilt onto you op. It’s just unthinkable in their world and they have no idea how lucky they truly are.

You do need to take responsibility for your reaction - you can’t change what they think/experience but if they knew the full story most people would understand. But given you don’t want to share it, and I don’t blame you then a simple but honest response that closes the conversation might be:

‘We are not terribly close’
’Its a long boring story for another day’
’It sounds like you are very close to your family’

Try and remember the idolisation of family, even toxic ones in part is responsible for such poor mental health and continuing abuse and mistreatment.

Feel proud you have survived your story, choosing sound mental health over all else. It’s hard at Christmas especially so only agree to commitments you know will be mindful of your feelings at a tender time. You can’t choose your family op.

For some people the death of a parent is a relief. It might not be socially acceptable to say that out loud but it can certainly be true.

@Thecatmaster last time I was summoned to my families house for Christmas (well,boxing day as i wasnt welcome for the day itself-'thats for family') my family attacked me with a sharp carving knife and beat me up in front of my kids

Am I meant to go lc and go see the people who abused me,smear my name and reputation,would stab me if they could get away with it and don't love me at all,just to (hopefully) walk away and say 'well,at least that's over for another year'

Or,do I go to my lovely mils house

Have a lovely Christmas,with well thought out presents,lovely food,loving atmosphere,treated and spoken to with respect and knowing I am loved for just being me-warts and all

I know where I'll be going next year

That’s horrendous.
I hope you reported the lot of them to the police. That is a good way for people to see the truth.
Enjoy your Christmas with those that cherish you and never return.

I grew up in a pretty stable/normal household, so as a young person would not have understood going NC with parents.

But in my 30s I had a good friend who was full NC and hearing her life experiences definitely taught me that there are parents who definitely don’t deserve a relationship.

As a result of that, if someone says they are NC I just assume they have their reasons.

Yes, over and over again.
I'm nc with both my parents.
Probably the worst was when my friend said to me, just after her father had died "I couldn't speak to you about my dad, because you're so awful to yours" She practically spat at me that I should make amends because he deserves better treatment.

She then told me she couldn't be near me knowing that I couldn't understand what she was going through, or had lost...and I haven't seen her since.

I tried to explain to her that I I'd lost every hope that my dad would be a father to me, hundreds of times in my life. I had grieved him as a father so many times, and I couldn't imagine how hard it was for her, having lost her Dad, who was a loving, committed family man for over 40 years, who she still lived with.
I wanted to support her, because it was terribly sad, their relationship was very close.
She couldn't compute that I had been let down severely from birth by him and that's why we were low contact, I was still trying to have a semblance of a relationship with my father at the time.

For the most part, I think our parents create the relationships with us they have. Kids don't just choose to not be close with their parents for no reason.

For the most part, I think our parents create the relationships with us they have. Kids don't just choose to not be close with their parents for no reason.

Completely agree, @Jumpingpogosticks. I’m so sorry you went through that.

My parents see it as my fault that our relationship is poor. Not because of my mum’s anger and silent treatment over the years, or because we’ve learned that she’s completely not to be trusted with our feelings or any upsets we’re going through in life.

My dad is her enabler. When I had a miscarriage, he phoned me and I thought he wanted to make sure I was ok or to see how I was, but really it was so he could tell me that it was important to open up to my mum about it - my mum who’d told me when I was a student abroad on my own that she only wanted to speak to me if it was ‘a good facetime’, and hit the roof when I told her I was going to start taking the pill aged 17/18 and in a committed relationship.

She has never had any regard for our emotions, so why did I owe her my grief? Because it’s what ‘normal’ daughters would do. That’s been thrown at me for years - normal daughters talk to their mums, they ask for their help, they confide in them etc etc etc. But she wasn’t a ‘normal’ mum.

PPs who said that you grieve for parents like this, or for the parents you wish you’d had, that’s so true. Rarely a day goes by when I don’t wish I had an emotionally stable, supportive family.

@Margaritanosalt

I said that I judge in most situations, not all. There will always be situations when going low or NC is the best for those who have suffered from a really toxic or abusive environment. Of course it is. But I do have a couple of friends who are very low contact with their families because of fallings out over things such as the perception that their sibling is the so called 'golden child' etc or other fairly inconsequential reasons (imo). I also see those sort of comments or reasons a lot on MN.

My sister cut me out of her life when I had a baby. She didn't want children herself but was jealous that they would get more attention from my parents. It has been heartbreaking and perplexing. That is a dysfunctional way to operate and one which has also harmed and isolated her. She then went on to use this strategy multiple times so now has no one in her life. Going NC isn't always the best solution, nor the easiest.

I do set a very good example to my children..they see me put boundaries in place and stick up for myself as and when I need to. I am happy to do so. My daughter regularly calls my mother out on her behaviour when she is being unreasonable. But I'm not going to deny them a good relationship (which they do have) with my mother and my wonderful step father who is the loveliest man in the world.

I accept my mother's flaws and understand why she is as she is. That's been good for my mental health too. I feel much less frustrated.

Perhaps judge is too strong a word, but I would most likely ask friends why they weren't in contact with families and if I thought that their relationship could be resolved in some way (i.e. a falling out over something minor) would try to help. I've grown up with so much conflict in my life, that I just don't wish to be at the centre of any drama. If though they had suffered abuse, I would tell them to walk away.

The difficulty is of course, knowing what is entirely normal, but I've been with my husband for 30 years and his family have given me a very good sense of how to operate.

@Thecatmaster i still disagree with your stance. I don’t think your daughter should be put in a position where she’s constantly calling your mother out for her bad behaviour. Why should she have to witness her poor treatment of you? You’re just perpetuating the cycle in a different way.

It is unfair but I always assume that if someone is not in contact that there is usually a very good reason; it's actually very hard to do and there is probably some trauma by the parent.

Children after all love all sorts of lousy parents, but no contact suggests something bad has happened to disrupt that.

Unthinking people who comment on it aren't worth your time OP

I did contact the police at the time but because they'd locked the doors to stop me getting out,I smashed a window

So if course,the police came back to me saying that if I tried to press charges for assault,then they would too for criminal damage

Yep-that was the logic-my family told the police I'd just smashed a window because 'she's a psycho mate' and they took their word for it

Of course that's the line they fed everyone and a lot of people believe them!

OP, I had the 'But she's your mother!' thing for decades and it really pissed me off. In the end I'd just say 'You need to have done some actual mothering to be given the title mother' and that worked quite well.

I'd have been four or five when she developed schizophrenia and stopped talking to me, unless to call me a 'stupid little animal'. After not talking to me for a couple of years, she became aggressive and then violent and even moving from one room to another at home was fraught with danger as she hit me at every opportunity. My brothers weren't well treated but I really got the shit end of the stick as far as violence went. It went on until I was 15, when she was finally sectioned for a year and then went to live with her mother. My father wasn't absent but was so self-absorbed he might as well not have been there for much of the time. He'd escape down the pub with his mates when he could. This was in the 1970s when mental health care was poor and counselling hadn't really been invented yet.

We had few meetings after she got sectioned, mainly because my brother wanted to have Happy Families, but every time I saw her I'd be depressed for weeks afterwards. Can't say I didn't try, I really did, I spent years trying to be a dutiful daughter but in return all I got was pain and anguish. When I was in my mid-50s she told my brother that our meetings had the same impact on her and that although she loved me (news to me), she never wanted to see me again. Honestly, the relief on hearing that was indescribable. Oh, that reprieve, it was wonderful! I didn't go to her funeral but fortunately everyone understood.

Anyone who tries it on with 'But she's your mum!' can do one.

I've found that the majority of people who make "but she's your mum!" type comments simply cannot comprehend how anybody could feel that way because they have a good relationship with their mum and haven't suffered abuse or general shitty behaviour from them as children and/or adults. My mother is toxic, a narcissist and was very cold and unsupportive alongside being physically abusive when I was a child/teen. She isn't much better now, although has improved in some ways, and is a difficult person in general. She still clearly can't handle the fact I am an adult with my own opinions, ways of doing things, and my own children with my own rules and parenting decisions.

I've heard it so many times over the years. They just don't get it. People are horrified when I'm searching for Mother's Day/birthday cards that just have a plain "Have a nice day" message on them rather than anything remotely gushy. Or that I would never ever say to my Mum that I loved her (because I don't feel that way) or would hug her etc. I don't involve her in my personal affairs and she's the last person I would turn to if I needed emotional support. I would never cry in front of her.

People tell me it's very sad and ask me things like how I would feel if my kids were going to such lengths to avoid showing me any affection or keeping me at arms length. I tell them I would never treat my kids the way she treated/raised me.

The people that get it, are the people who've experienced similar childhood experiences.

The people that don't get it, or either lucky and have had wonderful childhood with supportive parents or just dont get it.

I'm Low contract with my mum, have had therapy and for my own mental health - remain low contract. I've stopped trying to have relationship I wish I could have, or seeking her approval as it will never happen.

When asked, I simply explain that my mum isn't very nice and I'd rather not talk about it. I also don't care what they think, anymore.

I try to be the best, loving, kind and supportive mum I can be for my children so they never feel unloved and uncared for.

Oddly though, most of these mothers seem to think they did a great job raising their kids, gave them everything, made so many sacrifices etc and believe they are still great parents to their adult children. They are completely dismissive of any suggestions that they were shit and/or abusive and instead prefer to accuse the child of being ungrateful/difficult/rude/selfish etc.

A good way to deflect these sorts of comments is to learn enough fact that you can confidently assert yourself as if you’re a neutral third party in the situation and you’re looking at it objectively.

So you have this wealth of knowledge that disengages you from delving into your own traumatic childhood but suggests you clearly know more about it than they do.

For example -
‘Yeah I get that response a lot, surprisingly many therapists have suggested xyz’

‘I recently read a study that had shown families who xyz’

It’ll either kill the conversation off or they’ll disagree, if they disagree - nod and agree with them in a pondering closed statement like “it can be so complex” then redirect the conversation over to them with a question, people love to talk about themselves, they won’t care you don’t speak to your family when they’re talking about theirs.

You don’t need to convince any old busy body that your decision for NC is justified ❤️

Yep. I think the problem is as well that while people may understand that not all mums are loving, kind etc, they think that even bad mums have still birthed you and raised you (however badly) so they should still get some credit for that.

I disagree. Yes my mum did give birth to me and just about managed to keep me alive! (She did put me in some dangerous situations though where it was pure luck that nothing bad happened). But that's really where it ended.

She did the absolute bare minimum but was not a "mum" in any way. Then when I was 11 she buggered off and left me with my abusive dad. She'd drive past me and totally blank me. I tried having a relationship with her as an adult and one of the first things she said was "did your dad sexually abuse you? As when I used to drive past you, you looked so sad" wtaf??!! She didn't stop that car once and say "are you ok?". So no, I owe her fuck all.

F

I had a horribly neglectful and abusive childhood and I've spent a lot of my adulthood trying to forge a relationship with my mother . The last straw was when she had My brother threaten to attack myself and my husband because we wouldn't take our toddler to her home to see her. Her home is the filthiest place I've ever seen. Damp, mold , dog urine on all the furnishings and floor 🤮🤮 she now has very advanced cancer and I expect as she comes closer to being terminal that I'll hear "oh but she's your mum" in fact my own father has already fallen out with me over it , my parents have been separated nearly 30 years and he left for the ow. But he's now at my mother's beck and call.
My mother is a nasty , vindictive and toxic individual and anyone who trots out these bullshit lines will be told to mind their business.

I’ve heard it all, oh but she’s your mum! Is the one that always pisses me off, she’s also an abusive drunk bitch. But oh you can’t abondon your family, bloods thicker than water etc
I am always 50/50 on annoyed and jealous of those type of people saying that, as they just have no clue and that’s lovely for them.

@Thecatmaster "I said that I judge in most situations, not all."

That's not what you said. You said:
"I do think, however, that people should make an effort to see family over Christmas or on special occasions in most cases. So, despite coming from a dysfunctional family myself, I do ensure that we're together over Christmas, and I'm sorry to say, that I probably would judge someone who was NC with family or who didn't see them at Christmas. I would see them as being partially to blame for their poor relationship with their parents. I wouldn't see it as just their problem though. It would be obvious that both sides of the family struggled with relationships."

Clueless, judgemental, and shockingly insensitive from someone having experienced dysfunction in their own family. I think you probably need to do some work on yourself and hope you do.

@HiHiHey I think one of the things that happens when we're brought up in a dysfunctional family is that we end up closer to other dysfunctional people than we would have if we were brought up in a "normal" family. So when we start to realise about our own family and the red flags, we start to notice it in the people around us. If we had been brought up to be more alert to red flags, we would have asserted boundaries much earlier on in the relationships.

I've started telling a lot more people about my situation in the last year. Not one person has given me a hard time about it thankfully. Given I've had 2 1/2 years of therapy for lifelong abuse, and the things I've suffered, I would have no time for anyone who tried to negate my experience.

To anyone here suffering narcissistic abuse at the hands of a parent, here are some resources which have also been posted on the Stately Homes thread:

Podcasts

Insight - Exposing Narcissism by Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 80 free weekly podcasts https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2
They have a book coming out

Videos

Dr Ramani – https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram

Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone

www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/ (Maria Consiglio, not much info about her but her posts can be very helpful imo)

www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/ (Patrick Teahan, childhood trauma therapist)

www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/ (Dr Nicole LePera)

www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/ (relationship experts Dr John & Dr Julie Gottman)

www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/ (Mary Toolan, website noted below)

www.instagram.com/ingridclaytonphd/ (Dr Ingrid Clayton, author of book noted below)

Facebook

Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox

www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor

Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful

www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter

Nate Postlethwait

twitter.com/nate_postlethwt

Ryan Daigler

twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites

Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)

outofthefog.website/

Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (useful free e-book), also noted in Instagram above

www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles

Psychology Today “Narcissist”

www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search

Psychology Today “Narcissism”

www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (possibly a good first book to read for someone who is not sure their parent/s is/are narcissistic, it's perhaps a little more gentle than other books)

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward

Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward

Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward

Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward

Daughter Detox by Peg Streep

The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk

Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)

Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride

Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Believing Me by Ingrid Clayton (highly recommended by Dr Ramani)

The Everything Guide to Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Cynthia L Goodman M.Ed.

Thank you everyone for your replies, perspectives and advice!

I'll never forget my mum telling me there was probably a reason that I could only have one child, but she on the other hand, was fantastic! As she had four!
... I'd like to add, I've got lifelong MH and emotional issues from my childhood, I've got all the childhood ACES and out of her 4 children, I am thriving compared to the others because I removed myself from the dysfunction of her "perfect" mothering.
.

She was also of the view that she was an angel person, sent to fulfil the needs of other people, dutifully throughout her life. Funny, I'm not sure where that fits in with "I just love to hit my children, because I want to see how much they'll take before they cry." One of us in particular wouldn't cry, so she enjoyed trying to break her.

I'm sorry for everything everyone has been through on this thread.

I hope everyone has some good support around them now as adults.

thank you, for posting all the resources.