My Sen daughter isn’t getting the support she needs because of disruptive kids.

[Usernumber3736372836373]

Please don’t come at me. I know the mainstream school system isn’t suited for all children so naturally some children do struggle and I get it - I have two with additional needs and both have EHC plans. But both are compliant and behaved at school so often they go under the radar!

anyway, dd 9 has speech and language delays, academic struggles, possible dyslexia and dyspraxia (not diagnosed), motor skill delays, sensory needs etc. I think she could be autistic like my eldest but no one will take me seriously. She does have an EHC plan but it’s making little difference currently as the school are being poop. She doesn’t and has never needed 1:1 so this isn’t expected or needed but they aren’t really giving her much support at all currently. She used to love school but she is hating it currently but she is okay once she’s there so the school don’t see the problem - not being able to get to sleep as she is anxious about school the night before and the mornings saying she feels sick every morning refusing to get up until last minute.

there are a few children in her class who are very disruptive on a severe level so it sucks for the rest of the class! The children are swearing, screaming, they refuse to do work, throwing stuff around at and at others, one has attacked teachers etc. it’s quite extreme behaviour and the school have had outside sources in as it’s got that bad. But I feel like this is why my daughter is so unhappy in school. Firstly due to lack of support and also the behaviour in the class.

I am trying not to be judgmental but the behaviour is appalling in that one class alone. The senco and teacher seem to have all the time in the world for the parents of the disruptive kids but dd who is one of the few children with an EHC plan in the school is getting very little support!

my eldest also went to the same school in the past however the behaviour in the school wasn’t half as bad and I felt he was supported there but dd not so much!

Ask for an emergency EHCP reviews and focus on your daughters needs not being met .

It's perfectly reasonable to go to the school and say 'this is in her ehcp and she's not getting it'. If the things you think she needs are not in the ehcp then ask for a review because it is no longer meeting her needs.

With regards to the other children, you can't do much, put up with it (complain obviously but know the staff don't have many options), ask for your DD to be moved to a parallel class or move schools 🤷🏻

This must be distressing for you and your child. Unfortunately the number and severity of children with SEND including behavioural problems has increased greatly. Obviously you are aware that resources from central government have just not kept pace.
The only helpful thing I have to say is that if you think your child may be autistic you should refer them through your GP. Where I work CAHMs have a waiting time for assessment of between 8 months and two years. Don't try to convince the school it's not necessary.

You need to request an early review of DD’s EHCP. The provision DD reasonably requires should be detailed, specified and quantified in section F. Then it is enforceable.

Does her EHCP specify support?

My DS was in a similar situation. DS had an EHCP and funding but the support was being diverted to a disruptive child (who didn’t have any funding).
I got DSs EHCP really tightened up so the school had no room for interpretation .

You dont say her age. But push for the asd assessment. Surely she has 1/5 chance of asd with a sibling. And with speech delay too surely even higher.

As others have said you need to push for her ehcp to followed/adapted to meet her needs.

The problem is at the moment so many children are allowed to slip through the net because needs aren’t met. It fails everyone in the system.

Is her ehcp any good if it were being followed. What support does it say she should get?

If the ehcp is good you can contact the school and LA and say its not being delivered. I think you coukd even go to judicial review

If the ehcp is crap you need to review it and gather evidence of what she does need as part of that review. You can ask for an emergency review but the la doesnt have to agree to one. You do have to have an annual review though.

Why on earth are these kids 😐 allowed to create havoc and disrupt everyone's else education?

totally disgraceful unacceptable behaviour 😤 to behave like that,

no matter what behavioural issues they have got ...

You can ask the head teacher how the school records incidents of violence in class, the environment, to adults and to other children. Unless these incidents are recorded and pressure put on school by parents nothing will happen. It's nothing to do 'consequences, punishments' etc etc but about the school meeting the needs of all the children. Obviously these children with the problematic behaviours have SEBN and their own traumas but how and where they are supported needs addressed. It's only by asking about the recording procedures and where that info goes that you will get any change.

It's truly terrible what teaching staff have to put up with in their workplace and now there seems to be less TA to help as schools are so underfunded. It's so depressing.

The LA can force schools to take children who shouldn't be in mainstream, parents can force schools to take children who shouldn't be in mainstream. There aren't enough places in schools specifically for children with special educational needs, or the budget for enough 1to 1 TAs. Nobody's children should be the collateral damage , but that's what happens.

This is the reality. There’s no places in special schools. Schools say they can’t meet need and the LA says tough. You exclude and it’s against the Equality Act 2010 if it’s due to SEND. It’s awful and it’s everywhere. Everyone in school is paying the price. I can’t wait to retire as it’s not going to get any better.

I feel for you OP. Ex teacher here. An all too common situation in so many schools now. It’s dreadful, also primary seems worse than secondary. As others have said, keep pushing. Ask for an emergency review. How many hours does your daughter have? Ask the school what this looks like at the moment. I’m not sure how things can improve in the wider context actually, it’s such a massive problem.

No suggestions just empathy. DS9 is struggling at school due to some extremely disruptive kids in his class. As one of the well behaved ones, he's used as 'support' for other kids and seems to spend his time as a companion to kids in the 'chill out room' or ducking from flying fists at his table. No amount of me asking for him to be moved seems to help. We have a tutor for him now who strongly supports dyslexia which has, unsurprisingly, gone under the radar as his needs are far less than others. We've recently received offers from private schools so we're throwing money at the situation (which will be a stretch) but I'm at the end of my tether. Like your school, lots of time for the parents of the disruptive kids, I barely get a look in.

It's often because they can't get a place at a special needs school so the mainstream school is told they have to accommodate, despite not being able to meet their needs. There was a boy in my DS's class who had to wait two years for an appropriate school place. In the meantime everyone in the class was miserable, including the child in question as the school struggled to cope, and he hurt the other kids on an almost daily basis.

@cerisepanther73 says someone with absolutely no idea what on Earth it's like to parent kids that behave in this way.

Thanks all. I’m not sure if said children have sen or just behavioural issues. I do sympathise with the parents who are probably at their wits end being called in every day! I know how hard it is to get into a specialist school and how few places there are. I’m trying to get a place for my eldest who is secondary age but because he doesn’t have any behavioural issues he gets forgotten about despite really struggling academically and likely not not be able to access GCSE’s.

@Heatherbell1978 interesting you say that. Dd is often used to support the other children too and often in the quiet area with a disruptive child if she needs TA support but they are with a dysregulated child. Dd doesn’t necessarily need the quiet area. She is a kind soul but sometimes it gets too much. You have my sympathy too! 💗

I don’t normally comment on these things because they get so heated but there is something going on with children these days and we need urgent public enquiry as to what. I don’t really do daily mail ‘back in my day’ type shit, but I really do believe children’s behaviour has taken an extreme turn and it’s in the interests of everyone to find out what’s going on. They were not this aggressive when I was at school, nor DP who went 10 years before me, nor when my elderly relative was a primary teacher for donkey’s years. Nobody seems to care about the cause which is so worrying.

Sorry I know that’s not answering your AIBU as such but I can’t because it’s hard to know what’s really going on. No child should be subject to violence or disruption at school, that’s for sure.

@PTSDBarbiegirl I don’t know if they get recorded. However I do know that dd got hurt in the cross fire a while ago between a dysregulated child and a TA. The school totally downplayed the situation but I had to complain as dd told a different story - she’s brutally honest and wouldn’t lie about anything. She also used to get ‘punched’ every day by one of them. I spoke to the teacher who said she’s trying her best to keep said child away from dd. That’s a whole different post!

moving school is difficult as we live rurally and not many schools around wi to our travelling further afield.

@Naptrappedmummy I agree. I do believe things like autism and adhd are more recognised now and things often went unnoticed years ago, however the behaviour in schools hasn’t always been this bad, so I totally agree. Even with DS who is 5 years older than dd, there wasn’t half as many problems in his class, in fact his class at primary were a fab bunch! I do think Covid is somewhat of a factor. I was told that the current year 4’s are the worst effected as they were reception age but it can’t be an excuse forever!

Behavioural difficulties to the extent you describe are SEN.

If the other DC don’t have EHCPs and you think their parents will be open to it why don’t you direct the parents to IPSEA and SOSSEN and suggest they request an EHCNA so their DC the support they need.

@KeepGoingThomas sadly the local authority here isn’t fit for purpose. I’m friends with a lady with a child with severe needs and fighting a battle to get an EHC plan in place. I was fortunate my children had them from pre school age and it was a relatively easy process but I know it’s got harder since!

It may not be one factor, it may be a few (my gut feeling). Calling for more support is one thing but I do feel pressure all needs to go on to find out why this is happening, because prevention is much better than a cure. I think we need to get our heads out of the sand that kids have ‘always been this way’ because I think it’s wearing thin and becoming increasingly apparent they haven’t. Don’t get me wrong, there have always been children with extreme behaviours and complex needs, but nowhere near this level.