Is it really illegal to refuse to have a smart meter?

[ALongHardWinter]

This is what a friend of a friend told me yesterday. Is it true? My electric company have been sending me letters every few months for the last couple of years urging me to have one installed. So far I've dug my heels in,mainly due to all the horror stories I've heard about them - not working initially,or working initially then suddenly not working. I know at least 6 people who've had them installed that have had problems. Now I get told this!

@scalt ummm do you actually know what a smart meter is and how it works? Maybe your tinfoil hat has fallen over your eyes.

A smart meter is simply a bit of kit that can transmit energy usage data in real time back to your energy company meaning they and you have accurate information on your usage and expenditure - the utter bastards!

It is also very useful on a county wide basis as energy companies can use the data predict demand more accurately, feeding in to energy provison and policy. And yes if you can in incentivise people to load shift you can balance the grid better - meaning less wastage and pressure in the system.

Of course, like all tech, there is capacity for this to be used nefariously - enforced load shifting etc.. so this is why you have safeguards on its usage. Although TBH we don't invest in smarter energy systems and grids soon, we may well end up with chaotic and forced load shifting anyway - eg rolling unplanned blackouts)

Yes when i turn my heating up to 22c when I'm wfh (I get bloody cold sat working all day) and forget to turn it down at night I see the difference. It's the biggest consumption I have. Cooking and heating the hot water uses very little.

my company keep calling me and what stuck with me is they said ‘it’s currently free’ which in my mind means they will start charging at some point.whether that to have them installed or just to have them?
keep saying no.
i am definitely not getting one

Water meters can be compulsory depending on when they were built. Someone up thread said smart water meters can be made compulsory in some areas. Gas and Electricity, not compulsory. I live in a flat and about 2019 I was told I had to get smart meter, date all booked then day before they came, realised distance of meter box from flat and said I couldn't have one anyway. I've been told this is common situation in blocks of flats. So no not illegal not to have one.

@ganesha That is likely to just be marketing speak. Seeing as there are government imposed targets for installing smart meters, suppliers are unlikely to introduce disincentives to having one.

However there may, a long long time down ths road, issues when there is just a small rump of customers on dumb meters as these customers will be disproportionately expensive to supply to.

Years ago when I worked in energy we used to occasionally get an enquiry from a householder asking if their house could be connected to mains gas as they, or the previous owner had refused a connection in the seventies when it was rolled out in their area.

We would have to say that yes a connection was possible, but regretfully they had misssd the free installation so would have to pay, which could be in the region of tens of thousands of pounds. I always used to wonder how those situations came about. Reading threads like this thread I now understand how!

I’ve blocked the number they called from excessively, I know I will eventually have to get one but their pushy spammy type calls and the fact I’d have to take the day off to deal with it when I’m perfectly happy with my current one, have completely put me off.

I'm not sure it will ever be a legal requirement. We have solar panels and can't have a smart meter

No. I know it'll end in failure because our meter is in the kitchen cupboard and nobody's mobile works in the kitchen unless you stick your head out of the window. If they ask, I ask if they'll fit a mobile signal booster but they say they won't so I say I'll save them the trouble.

The target is for just under 75% of homes to have them by end of 2025

@Ginmonkeyagain Yes, I know exactly what a smart meter is, and what it does. It does not make me want to get one, though. I wish I could believe that they were for the greater good. Certainly what you said is what they always tell us. But I think there is more to smart meters than meets the eye: not necessarily the meters themselves, but what they might be used for. As for safeguards: all very well now, but could easily be ripped up on a future government's whim, just like so many fundamental things we thought were indestructible were simply ripped up in 2020, on the government's whim.

The first word of your post was all that was needed. Why would I invite technology into my house that has the ability to do that? The rest of your post means nowt to me. I don't give a shit if people owe their energy supplier money and my meter isn't on the outside.

@scalt What exactly do you think they are going to be used for, if not measuring the amount of gas and electricity you use?

It's just infrastruture - no more worrying than full fibre, telephone lines or mobile phone masts.

I suppose people are more likely to hear negative stories about smart meters as people wouldn't tend to post positive comments when things are working fine. Survivor bias and all.

My Smart Meter is great. Had it for several years. It's transferred to new companies easily.

It wasn't difficult taking meter readings before hand. I do like the daily readings I can download and it's interesting to see how my consumption varies over the year - I am a data addict.

I guess that if you have signed up to a contract where you agree to have a Smart Meter, then you are breaking your contract.

Other wise, your choice.

Indeed @cakeorwine . There will be issues, jazt as there are issues now with some dumb meters malfunctioning. It is just a causation and correlation thing. A number of smart meters are bound not to work or function as expected so people will associate that with the roll out rather than the fact that there will be inevitable malfunctions and failues with any tech - old or new.

Yes and you know they still work

It does sound like scare tactics

If it stops working I will Inform them

@Ginmonkeyagain It's not the companies being able to monitor my usage that I'm worried about. It's the government. And whatever they might say about safeguarding, and information only being obtainable with a warrant, I'm sure they have made sure the loopholes are in place so that they can easily snoop on people they don't like. It's a step towards quotas of how much energy you are allowed to use. Call me tinfoil hatted if you like, but after the last four years, absolutely nothing will surprise me any more.

Regards Octopus and customer service - the only real test of service is problem resolution and my parents have been with them a few years now but moved recently and have had an absolutely awful time trying to work with octopus to sort who have been abysmal, service wise. Mums of ill health and my dads on his eighties and have been worried about being cut and off.

They have cocked up the resolution several times and promised to call my dad no less than 8 times and haven't bothered their arse, to the point that I'm starting to suspect the advisor we are dealing with (same person every single time you email, long wordy standard paragraphs) is in fact a bot. Dads even tried emailing the ceo and surprise surprise we get a reply from this same chap as a before

So yes in our experience as having requiring customer service to help elderly vulnerable customers it seems they don't really give a shit

I imagine that some meters will expire as nothing lasts forever, I don't think that meters are any different to anything else, everything will break down sometime. Just because you like it, it doesn't mean it will last forever.

I have exactly the same reason. It's a basement too and I can't see how they'll manage to change it without destroying my kitchen. Nobody on the phone can answer any questions I have about it so I say no.

Similarly, they'll struggle to ever get me on a water meter because the whole row is really old pipework. If next door have a leak, they have to ask me to turn the stop cock off!

@gamerchick "I don't give a shit if people owe their energy supplier money"

Love comments like this, who the fuck do you think pays for it? It's you, it's you with higher prices across the board for everyone; the companies still make a profit, they don't take the cut. Like clothing shops take into account loss by shoplifting or damage to clothing.

They seem to be working ok

Q3 2023 Smart Meters Statistics Report (publishing.service.gov.uk)

34 million Smart / Advanced meters in the UK
59% of all meters are Smart / Advanced

The data does include Smart meters operating in non Smart mode - I couldn't see the split between these 2 numbers in the report.

@scalt if the government really wanted to limit the amount of energy you can use or spy on you, they don't need to spend billions on a smart meter infrastructure to do it!

I guess you don't have a customer loyalty card or a bank account then?
Never go outside?
Use Google?

Monitoring your energy usage is the least of your problems about things they know about you.

I guess there could be a scenario where they allow you x KWh a year.

I asked a simple question and it was answered with a load of waffle after it. I don't care about any of that stuff, it's not what I asked.

And lol you don't actually think energy prices will come down because everyone has a smart meter do you?

I guess there could be a scenario where they allow you x KWh a year

Right, although they wouldn't possibly do that would they. They just could.

I remember right at the start when it was denied that the meters had a 2 way capability. It was all one way, just sends your readings, energy companies couldn't do anything to you.

Turned out to be a lie. What else are they lying about? Why are they being pushed so agressively? Its weird.