Mr X has died : who gets the house?

[MySecret21]

Just after some advice please…

If Mr X dies and he lives alone in a property that he owns (no mortgage) what happens to the house?

He has two children but they are both under 18 and live with their mother. Mr X and their mother were never married and separated over 10 years ago.

The only other family Mr X has is his dad.

As Mr X’s children are below 18, will the house go to his father instead?

There is no written will so everyone is just speculating as to who decides what to do with the house and who gets what.

Thank you.

Not true. Other relatives don’t inherit anything if there are kids and no spouse.

My apologies, yes the kids get everything, divided equally between them all.

I know MN put disclaimers on threads giving legal advice but it might be better if they asked that no one should post on this type of thread unless they actually are legally trained.

You're quite right- in intestacy where there is children but no spouse, children take everything, and that's England and Scotland (I don't know what NI provision is)

A bereavement payment for an ex of 10 years, are you sure?

Is Mr X named on the children's Birth Certificates as their father?
If so, someone needs to apply for an Administration Order. The person who completes this will have to evidence that they have searched for a will.
If he is, and there is no Will, the children come highest on the list of beneficiaries if Mr X has no other children.

If Mr X paid nothing towards the DCs maintenance the mother should have a claim against the estate for monies owing. She should investigate that. She doesn’t know who else may be lodging a claim and shouldn’t assume her DC are the only beneficiaries.

Can the children own it and live there with their mother? asks Grabby McGrabberson...

House sold. Estate tallied. Expenses/outstanding owing paid from the estate. Remainder put into trust for children and the administrator is paid from the estate for this role.

Perish the thought that he has inadvertently provided for his children.

Shudder.

To qualify for BSP, you have to be living with the deceased at the time of death.

Children are 13 & 17. Under no circumstances is it grabby to want them financially provided for, with only one surviving parent. The rubbish I see on here at times.

This is sound advice.

What an utterly bizarre post !

Why would living in the property be 'grabby' in this scenario. (Although if you had rtft you would already know that it is not an idea favoured by the children's mother)

Woman raises deceased's children on her own with no maintenance. IF she rents in a nearby area that suited the family why ON EARTH would she be 'grabby' to move the family into a mortgage free home. As not having to pay rent benefits the ENTIRE family by increasing mums disposable income . Even if it's only for a year until one of the kids inherit.

You obviously don't privately rent and can't appreciate exactly what a huge % of monthly income it is.

I would also be making a claim for maintenance against the estate as he has amassed £40k and a mortgage free home at the mother's expense of unpaid maintenance. !

Thank you to everyone who has replied with supportive and informative replies.

According to my friend, her Ex told his father there was no Will. The circumstances around the death were that he had an unexpected cardiac event and his father had flown to England to be with him as they’d both been made aware it was very serious and Mr X was unlikely to live much longer due to the heart damage he’d incurred.

Whilst he was a patient in the hospital there’d been some periods where Mr X had been somewhat lucid which is when he spoke to his father about his non-existent Will. He died about 4 days after the initial event which I think was quicker than had been expected.

His father did also search the property for a Will “just in case” as I’m guessing his son obviously had some degree of confusion / neurological impairment whilst in hospital but he couldn’t find one and so the assumption is that Mr X was correct when he said there wasn’t one.

The grandfather has said that if the house is to be sold then he will ensure the money goes straight to the children, but he doesn’t understand if he is the one who can authorise the sale seeing as he has no legal claim over the property (to his knowledge). He wasn’t sure whether the house would need to remain as it is until the oldest daughter turns 18 (not until next September) and then all decisions about the property and financial distributions will be down to her.

From what has been said on here it definitely seems like some good legal support and representation is required.

Will all have to go through probate too and his other affairs dealt with this could come down to his father.

He sounds like a lovely caring grandfather doing his best when also bereaved. The dcs and their mother are lucky to have him.

Thankfully the children are fine.

The 13 year old has no memory of him, and the 17 year old only has bad memories of him.

My friend said they can sometimes act quieter than normal when his death is being discussed but they aren’t upset as such. He was pretty much a complete stranger to them. Neither of them went to the funeral when given the option.

"The grandfather has said that if the house is to be sold then he will ensure the money goes straight to the children, but he doesn’t understand if he is the one who can authorise the sale seeing as he has no legal claim over the property (to his knowledge)."

Someone needs to apply to court for "letters of administration" - the equivalent to applying for a grant of probate over an estate when there's a will and executors - then they have legal authority to do all the things needed to wind up the estate, including any sale of property. The person entitled to apply for letters of administration is usually the person who inherits under the intestacy rules but where- as here - that's children under 18, someone else needs to do it. The grandfather can contact the Liverpool District Probate Registry (probate court) for advice on whether that's him or someone else. https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/if-theres-not-a-will

From rusty memory, I think it will be the children's mother who is entitled to apply and look after their interests, but she'll have to appoint a second person as there must be 2 administrators when the beneficiaries are minors.

Will this still stand even though they were never married and she hasn’t seen him for over 10 years?

She cannot apply on their behalf as she was not married / cohabiting with the deceased. As the GF lives abroad, it would be far better for him to instruct solicitors, he could do so and tell them to keep your friend informed at all stages. The cost of doing this will come out of the deceased estate, so no money needs to be paid out upfront.

Thank you.

The grandfather is currently in England and staying with an old friend of his and I think he intends to stay here until all the loose ends are sorted. That may change though depending on how long the process takes - it’s all new to both him and my friend so they’re a bit lost.

I’m seeing my friend tomorrow though so I will advise her on all the information that has been given on this thread.

Regarding the mum applying for the grant of letters of administration, I don't think it's about her relationship to the deceased (and obviously it goes without saying she isn't anywhere in the order of priority on her own account) - it's about her relationship to the child beneficiaries. The children are the ones who would be entitled to apply for the grant, but for the fact they're under 18 so can't. In that situation my understanding is that a parent or another competent adult selected by the court has to do it on their behalf until they're 18 - but as the guardian of the children's interests, not by virtue of any right the adult has in relation to the deceased's estate themselves. The details are in the Non-Contentious Probate Rules s32.—"(1) Where a person to whom a grant would otherwise be made is a minor, administration for his use and benefit, limited until he attains the age of eighteen years, shall, unless otherwise directed, be granted to the parents of the minor." It goes on to say that if there's only one surviving parent to act, they must nominate another person to act with them, and that the court can be asked to appoint persons to act if there is no parent willing/able.

If that's right, then I think the mum does have first refusal on taking this burden until the eldest child turns 18, and she could ask the grandfather if the relationship is civil enough for them to work together and he wants to do this last task for his son and grandchildren, or alternatively a solicitor, or her partner or other trusted competent adult willing to help, to be the second trustee. If mum doesn't want or feel able to take over the burden of administration of her ex's affairs and it's just too messy emotionally, she could defer to the grandfather and ask the court to appoint him plus a second adult, or to appoint two paid professionals.

Ask around friends and family for recommendations for a decent probate solicitor. Some are rubbish some are great. Legally the house will pass to the children equally once they reach 18 until then it will be held on a statutory trust for their benefit. Ideally mum and grandad as trustees. Make it the solicitors problem to put this into practice and her fees will come out of the estate.

Just to add that the inheritance tax position needs to be sorted out and any tax paid within 6 months of the death, and before letters of administration can be granted.