Not married - what would happen if one of us ended up in ICU?

[SpringMeadows]

My DP and I are not married and don't intend to. We are in England. My understanding is that if something were to happen and one of us ended up critically ill in hospital, because we are not related, we may not be allowed to see each other in hospital.

Does anyone know if this is correct? Maybe someone who works in a hospital? Apparently you cannot make someone you are not related to, your 'legal next of kin' in the UK.

We have no wish to get married but the above seems a huge drawback for unmarried couples.

Been married for years and have had wills for years, but I'm sorting a LPOA after Christmas, as I could easily end up in an ITU situation at any point and want everything water tight.

As posters have said, being married isn't the be all and end all in these situations.

Ditto. We are doing it in the NY. Been married 20 years but realised that this was a missing piece. Not least because DH is showing some troubling memory loss signs (his mother was diagnosed with dementia at the age he is now) so we want it sorted.

It's so easy to do as well.

Give each other LPOA for health, and for money while you're at it if no-one else you trust. But if you share a property worth over £650k then you should get married or civil partnership for inheritance tax reasons.

It's so easy to do as well.

I was surprised how easy it is. We had a webinar at work from an external trainer on sorting everything for "later life" and he went through this.

It's a no brainer as I see it.

LPA it is then. So many reasons why we don't want to get married (including the fact that we are both financially independent so would not need to rely on inheritance from the other). We already started making wills so that is in hand.

Thank you for all the input.

So you'd rather pay a load of tax unnecessarily? each to their own...........can be a civil partnership though, if you want the legal protection but don't want marriage.

Another thing to consider if you’re planning on having kids if anything happens to the woman when giving birth and she ends up unconscious in ICU the dad if unmarried can not take the baby home. He has no rights to the baby until he’s on the birth certificate. I was involved in such a situation once and was a bit of a nightmare!

You can name who you want as your next of kin. It doesn’t need to even be a relative. Make sure you are registered as each others next of kin on your health records as this is the data hospital staff will use, particularly in an emergency situation . Hospital staff don’t care if you’re married or not. The only way for anyone to ensure they are involved in decision making regarding treatment is to organise a power of attorney for health and welfare. That is the case for everyone , married or not.

I lived with my partner and he was NOK. We were not married.
I was admitted to hospital (section as MH issues) and he was always notified, not any of my actual family.
From what I was told by various MH professional involved with me, NOK is who you say it is.

Next of kin has no legal standing and there's also lots of confusion as result of American TV and movies.

To have legal rights you need to apply for a Power of Attorney - even if married.

www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

Note there are differences in Scotland and NI.

I've got to be honest, I think most of the posts on here are stone wrong on NOKs, and I worked in a hospital for 12 years. I agree with @GeorgeBeckett and one other- NOK isn't a legal position, it'sjust whoever is closest to you, typically your partner or someone else if you don't have a partner, or occasionally someone else if the partner is incapacitated too, though even then the partner would usually be listed as NOK with other contact details added in. The only possible issue would be if your partner was unconscious and their other relatives for some reason wanted to cut you out, they could say that they were the NOK. I've occasionally known there to be a slight tug of war in the notes based on what different people are telling the staff about who the usual closest person is. But I've never known anyone be asked to produce a marriage certificate!

However, getting an LPA is a great idea, and offers documentation that supports your status as an important and trusted person.

Why unnecessarily? We are not leaving stuff to each other apart from a couple of things.

Being married automatically conveys certain rights. Being unmarried gives you v v few.

I would get some legal advice to figure out what you need and what you don’t want and the proper legal stuff to do so. If you are financially independent then there is very little that you need/want that can’t be sprted

Yes this. So much hysteria and misinformation on this thread. NOK is not a term with very much legal meaning in England/Wales. And the scenario you want to be worried about is not really the 'in ICU, decisions need to be made about turning off life support' one. Legally speaking the decision in that scenario is 100% with the doctors involved, to assess what is in the patients best interests (or, if there is a dispute, with the court of protection). Doctors will typically involve whoever is close to the patient in the decision making which will include an unmarried long term partner or a spouse or family. That's not to ask whether the partner/family 'want' life support turned off or not, it's about ascertaining as far as possible the person's own views e.g. whether they had any religious views on end of life.

Things of course can get awkward and contentious in these very emotional situations if there's a difference of opinion between family members and a partner/spouse and/or with the doctors on what's in someone's best interests. But an LPA or being married won't do much to change that. It would be highly, highly unlikely you'd ever be denied access to your seriously unwell partner in that situation. Obviously in COVID access was restricted but that was universal and not to do with being married or unmarried, the only other situations I've come across where a close family member or partner has to be denied visiting are where there's such acrimonious disputes between families that they are literally loudly/violently kicking off and security has to get involved for their safety and that of staff/patients. Otherwise it's a common enough situation to have unmarried long term partners that hospitals should manage it fine so I really wouldn't worry too much about that.

The scenario I would be a bit more worried about is longer term survival but with loss of capacity, most commonly through dementia or other age related illness but it can happen after serious accidents or illness so that for e.g. decisions need to be made about whether the person can return home or needs to live in a care home or other facility. Again there's no legal absolutes here, ultimately it's the person's best interests that matter and the court will rule on those if needed but in that scenario an LPA to a long term partner or spouse can be quite useful to confirm that before the person lost capacity they wanted their spouse or partner to make those decisions for them, which is what the LPA is specifically set up to do (marriage doesn't automatically confer this right incidentally).

Please don't get married if you don't want to otherwise just because you're worried about the hospital scenario. A certain vocal faction on MN is insistent every woman needs to be married "for their protection" but that is based on an assumption you are a SAHM or lower earning/lower asset mother to young children with a higher earning/wealthier male partner. That may well be the main demographic of MN but it's not everyone and therefore nor is marriage essential for everyone. If you're the higher earner or wealthier one in your relationship or there are step children/blended families in the mix marriage could well be actively disadvantageous. Certainly don't get married just because of some fictional 'next of kin' scenario!

I think you may be right. My mother had nominated her neighbour as her next of kin when she was terminally ill. I don’t actually know if there was a power of attorney type document or if my mum just told the hospital that neighbour was next of kin (hospital knew they weren’t related) but the neighbour was able to be prime visitor (during Covid) and be the person who was kept updated of all developments and discuss moving her to a hospice, etc.

I went to hospital with my partner and just gave my name as next of kin. NHS won’t turn you away as the partner. They really aren’t that joined up.

After a friend's experience of a partner dying with no will, I had PoA and a will drawn up. Friend couldn't access bank account, pay bills, talk to mortgage people. They had been together for years but just "never got round to it". Thankfully, family were all supportive but if they hadn't been, friend may have been suddenly homeless in their late 50s.

I had LPA for my terminally ill sister. It made things so much easier.

My gp have us paperwork that names each other in case of emergency, we have adult children and everyone gets along so it's sufficient

Next of kin actually has no legal definition and no real basis in law.

You can put whoever you want as your ‘next of kin’ when in hospital and the staff will respect that. If you come in unconscious, whatever is on your notes would be used, and if there’s nothing there then we do a little bit of digging to come up with a name.

You would never be stopped from visiting your unmarried partner by the staff in the ICU. Where there are complex family dynamics the situation can be more difficult but we usually leave that for the family themselves to sort out.

I do agree that at the very least you should both make a will detailing what you want to happen to your estate if you are not married, and to make plans regarding the household finances if you live together and would each be unable to cover the essentials independently if the other was incapacitated for an extended period. I have seen many families left temporarily/permanently destitute due to the unexpected serious illness of a mother or father.

Agree There is so much misinformation on this thread. BIL is unmarried, had a massive stroke and was in ICU for several weeks, then unable to communicate for several more. His partner of 20 years, and nobody else, was involved with the medical team, in all decision making from the minute he entered the hospital. There was absolutely none else involved despite his parents and his brother visiting from day one. The team always assumed his partner was the one they should consult with.

I would add however that finances were an issue as his partner had zero access to bank accounts, she was a SaHM and his wages went into his account, this took months to sort out. However this would have been the case if they had have been married.
The only solution is to have POA for both Finances and Health set up.

The problem is though when there is a treatment the patient is clear they don't want and the medical staff decide the person isn't competent to make the decision, they will ignore the medical next of kin and can go to Court to force what they want through.

If there is a health LPOA for the adult patient then they will have to consult with the person(s) who hold it and if it is taken to Court will have to contest with those person(s).

It is a way of ensuring there are proper checks and balances on your treatment so unlike the person my DP cares for it can help prevent you ending up in ICU.

This has been discussed before on here lots of time.

The hospital in this case clearly had concerns as it is normal to try to keep families together.

There are however other issues that dads, whether widowed or those who adopt babies, can face that mothers don't face due to the safeguarding measures GPs and hospitals put in place in getting medical treatment including routine vaccinations for their child under 1.

Op has had lots of good advice here and hopefully will get LPOAs sorted in the very near future.

NOK and nearest relative seem to cause a lot of confusion. Nearest relative is used with the Mental Health Act and there is very clear legal guidance who this is. This explains it quite well
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/nearest-relative-under-the-mental-health-act/#:~:text=The%20next%20of%20kin%20has,should%20be%20detained%20in%20hospital.