Shocked by DD4 comment

[Wreh]

Hi,

NC for this

I was getting DD4 ready for school this morning, putting her shoes on when she came out with

"I don't want any people with brown skin coming to my birthday party"

DD5 will be five early next year for context

I was shocked at what she'd said. She's never said anything remotely like this before. She's never mentioned different skin colours before

I explained to her that she isn't allowed to say that and that she can't say that again

I've just spoken to DP about it for the first time and they were as shocked as I was

I'm not sure where to go with this, do we try and find out where this statement has came from?

Do we mention it to the school?

I'm not saying this is something she's heard at school but at four years old her world is very small right now other than one activity on a Saturday

Really don't know where such a direct statement has came from

TIA

You're assuming a brown skinned person has done something she didn't like. It may be nothing of the sort.

I think an open conversation without projecting what you hoped or thought she meant is needed. Then take the chance to explain that skin colour doesn't determine how nice someone is etc.

I don't see how you can hope to educate your child without addressing what they have actually said and pretending they are talking about something different.

The minimising of racism on this thread is quite gobsmacking.

OP, this is a moment your daughter needs to know very very clearly why what she said is 100% unacceptable. Obviously in a way that is suitable for a 4 year old but it has to be unequivocal . And check out who she could have heard that from - she is clearly exposed to a very nasty and bigoted people.

I think this is more normal than you’d think. I have five children and all of mine have come out with something similar at some point. Their grandad is ‘brown’ as is half their family on my side. It’s not something they’d ever have heard at home and quite honestly I can’t think of anywhere they’d have heard it out and about either. I’ve put it down to them beginning to notice the differences between themselves and other people - even tiny babies have been shown to search out people of their own race in pictures etc so I guess this is just the next stage in their understanding.
I do think you need to have a better conversation about it though rather than letting your child stew on it. There are some brilliant books aimed at young children that talk about racism in a way they can understand.
For what it’s worth none of my children have grown up to show any racist tendencies so far. In fact it’s a source of great amusement to the older ones now that my father and siblings all have lovely brown skin while I’m practically see through.

Exactly right

@FearlessGreatExpanse but 4 yr olds say all sorts of utter nonsense! At that age you can’t possibly know it’s come from being exposed to someone seriously racist.

My DD at 4 in reception said something similar about a teacher and she most certainly did not get it from home. I did go nuclear about it as I was horrified (sounds like I should have been more gentle from some of the PPs on here) and said I never wanted to hear anything like that from her ever again.

We then had conversations about different races, faiths etc in a more constructive way but there was no way I was leaving her in doubt that what she said wasn't awful and I never wanted to hear her talk about people different to us like that again.

I read a study about how infants don't really register physical differences. When they begin to, their interpretation of these differences is influenced by their personal environment. Depending on their interpretation, a bit of teaching might be in order.

The reason I read this - donkey's years ago - was because we'd taken my 5-year-old niece, who is brown and was visiting with her white family, on a bus whose driver had dark brown skin. She freaked out, calling him dirty. It was the first time she'd knowingly seen someone else with dark skin, and she certainly hadn't noticed that hers was also dark! My aunt navigated it beautifully.

It definitely happens.

My son, at about the same age, said he didn't like a 'skinny' man on the bus, I didn't know who he meant, so just reassured him that I was with him, so no need to worry. Later that week he said he didn't like Floella Benjamin, on the TV programme Playschool, I asked him why, and he replied that she was 'skinny' and I realised that he meant brown or black skin. I pointed out that one of his brothers friends was black, and he liked to play with him. He looked bemused and denied that the friend was black, so I told him to look next time he came to play, and he would see that he was black. He never said anything else about not liking black skin. I think that he just suddenly noticed that people have different coloured skin, and had reacted with fear for some reason.

I don’t think jumping down her throat and being horrified was a great way to deal with this.

She’s four. She doesn’t know what she’s saying or what the implications are.

Next time - like when she tells you she doesn’t want to play with X because he’s fat or walks with a limp - just sit down and talk to her about it.. draw out her thought process (which will be limited but it gets her talking) and then build the conversation out so you start her thinking about prejudice and empathy and treating other people as she’d want to be treated.

My DC have never made such comments to the point I find it hard to believe. If this is true, you need to find out exactly where this is coming from, I’d be having a word with the teacher to get to the root of it.

It's a child's natural instinct to fear or be wary of those who look different to ourselves. This instinct is present in young children, especially if they are encountering children of other races for the first time at school or nursery. It's your job to help educate her by allowing discussion.

I often hear others claim that children don't see colour until someone points it out- I really don't think that's true! I work in a primary school and they definitely do notice differences from a young age and have a definite sense of their own identity at age 4 when they start school.

I agree with people that say you should be non-judgemental and ask why she thinks that, what has she heard and then explain that people come in all shapes and sizes and colours, but they all can be just as much fun and be best friends, and everyone deserves respect.

Only at the very end would I say that she shouldn't say things like that because people might think that she was a bit mean and it would upset people.

If you come in too hard and close the conversation down completely then you miss out on an opportunity to have a talk about wonderfulness of diversity.

My youngest said something similar around the age of 6. I didn’t think it came from anywhere. I think it was a fairly typical reaction for a young child who lives in a majority white area and doesn’t have much experience of other cultures.

I do think we have some hard wiring somewhere that wants to stick with ‘our tribe’. It’s no coincidence that at school the children with shared heritage hang out together. It feels comfortable, familiar. As parents we need to widen their world. Encourage conversations about culture and ethnicity. I took the opportunity (trapped him in the car with me) to talk about historical ignorance and why it’s unacceptable to talk in those terms.

As football is a favourite subject I was able to tie in the amazing footballers he likes from all over the world. I explained that we all originated from hot climates and are skin colour only changed as we migrated around the earth and required a lighter skin tone to metabolise vitamin D.

I obviously bored him sufficiently that a year on I’ve never heard similar come out of his mouth.

This idea of not seeing colour is not very helpful, what's the point? It's like being erased and totally unrealistic. I'm very proud of my brown skin, I'd rather that people didn't pretend not to see it.

I know someone whose child said something similar at the same age. He had seen a poster for soft play with three stick figures with white faces and inferred that only white children were allowed in the soft play where his party would be. Once explained it was a silly poster for not showing any brown faces he was happy he could invite all his friends.

This thread is a bit upsetting as this little girl, who I’m sure is lovely, with lovely parents, has absorbed something from somewhere and can come out with this stuff then what hope for adults.

It just makes me want to hide away from the world.

You just need to have a gentle conversation with her, and explain.

I had the same 20 years ago with DC2, at a similar age, who had been in trouble in school because she thought her classmate from African origin (who she was friends with!) was "dirty". Back then, where we live, there were far fewer POC and they just didn't know! Ironically their BFF was of Indian origin!

All it took was a simple conversation, an explanation, and I didn't birth a racist!!! They've now got friends of all creeds and colours; it matters not one jot.

Either you don’t know many small children or you don’t understand the first thing about child development.

In no way does this comment mean the OP’s daughter has been exposed to racism.

Small kids often say completely horrendous things about people who look or act differently - they often have an automatic wariness about anyone that seems different and they are also trying out different ways to order and arrange the world.

This is not to say that a comment like this doesn’t need to be really robustly tackled - but that’s done best by having a conversation and helping them start the process of understanding consequences, prejudice and empathy.

You may find it hard to believe but it's perfectly normal, especially for children growing up in communities that are predominantly white!!

As I posted above, one of my three kids made a remark. The other two never did.

I see your point.

I'm assuming DD has made a random association between brown, and something she doesn't like in this moment, as she's expressed this opinion. I assumed a person because DD said 'people'. Kids learn by searching out (often nonsensical) patterns in things and 4 year olds aren't inherently racist.

I've had conversations with my kid at 6, 7 and 8 about what racism is, it's history, and how we challenge it. At 4 I think he wouldn't distinguish between a person's skin colour and their favourite colour. To him at that age they were just points of difference.

Given you say it's perfectly normal, especially for children growing up in predominantly white communities, I'm not sure that's true.

We live in deepest rural Devon. Teaching our kids about diversity was a nightmare. "Families look different". No they don't! No divorces, no single parents, no non-white families, no disabled parents or kids.

One day, an Indian family moved into the village.

The kids didn't bat an eyelid. Two more boys to play football with. Never even questioned it.

Kids are often better people than we give them credit for.

Good grief. She's four!

My granddaughter's just four and she's at the prime age for trying to make sense of the world and where she fits in it. Noticing people who don't seem to fit into their 'people jigsaw' is exactly what happens at this stage of development.

In my daughter's case it was a disabled man (all the more disconcerting given that I worked in the field of disability). "I don't want to be near that man...he walks funny". Ouch. But I didn't rant at her, I simply said that he was just a nice man who'd hurt his leg badly so he couldn't walk like we do, and that she didn't need to worry about it.

When one of mine was about that age he said in a very loud voice "NOT there mum" as I headed to a cashier. "He's got spots". The man had large freckles on his face. I apologised profusely and afterwards pointed out to my son that I am covered in freckles and he looked closely and went " oh you are too. I never noticed!" Kids are weird sometimes.

My DD is 28 and that's exactly what she told me at the age of 5. I had to check I wasnt the OP for a moment. I was mortified - imagining the scene in the staff room...'well, we know where that sort of attitude comes from...it all starts at home...'

She also waited for a quiet moment on a packed 29 bus in Tottenham to announce 'I don't like brown faces'.

I put it down to suddenly becoming aware of differences in appearances and it quickly passed.

Yes thats my fear too, but DH and I would never say anything like that, and DH works in a multicultural place too.

@honeysuckleweeks that makes me laugh about the freckles, DS5 said he didn't like a girl at school's fuzzy hair. Curly it is, just like mine is. DS5 looked at me like I was talking rubbish when I pointed that out!