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Wondering if other people do this - creating an "Island in the mess"?

46 replies

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 09:55

I was chatting with my mum the other day and I was able to put into words something which has been bothering me for decades and I wondered if anyone else is like me.

I tend to be naturally quite messy/chaotic. Could be to do with ADHD (I am diagnosed) or could be learned or could be personality. Both I have to make a real effort to even think about cleaning up but also I'm not particularly bothered by ambient mess and clutter.

Anyway, I have a thing that I tend to do which is something like - if the kitchen counter is dirty, and I want to prepare food now and don't have time to clean, I will take a clean chopping board and place that on the dirty counter to be a clean "island" on which I can prepare food without it coming into contact with the counter. I have been known to clean one hob in order to put a pan on that one hob while leaving the rest with stuff (pans as well as spilled food) on it - less likely to do that these days, more because I think it gets in the way and is hazardous, plus it doesn't really take any more time to wipe down the whole hob at once. I will be mentally keeping track of the "clean" and "dirty" areas and avoid e.g. contaminating the clean area by placing a utensil that has touched raw meat on there - I would use a separate saucer or something to avoid this touching the dirty counter too.

If I want to write on a piece of paper or do some drawing, I assume that surfaces (floor, table, etc) might have dropped/spilled food and therefore might dirty the paper, so I would either wipe clean the immediate area that I wanted to work in or I would use something like a book to lean on or place newspaper down first, both to protect the surface from my activities but also to protect my activities from the surface.

In general I am very careful where I place things in order to avoid them being damaged or contaminated by the environment which I assume might not be that clean, but also, I'm mostly aware of the contents of the mess and would avoid putting new items that might contaminate e.g. if I have McDonald's wrappers, I would try to keep them all together and away from a stack of paper such as paperwork which needs filing, which would get grease marks on them.

OTOH I have noticed that many people, including my DH, tend to go ahead and use the whole of an area without particularly noticing if it is clean or dirty or has important protection-worthy items in it, and by doing this, can contaminate items e.g. cardboard jigsaw pieces get grease stains on them or a wet cloth used to wipe something gets left in a position where it contacts absorbent items and causes damage to them. Either this, OR, if he wants to (e.g. cook) he simply won't do it in a messy area, he will stop and clean the whole kitchen first and only then start cooking, even if this makes it much later, or he will announce that it's impossible to cook and come up with some other solution e.g. we go out for fast food. If he is forced to operate in the messy environment it makes him very stressed and flustered.

And for another example, I used to constantly have a very messy bedroom, but I would carefully choose a spot for my foot in order to walk across the room without damaging things which are on the floor. (Like a cat does). I remember being frustrated that my younger sister, and also DH, would just plough across the room standing on whatever is in the way, like a dog does. I used to put this down to a male/female difference (DSis adopted my method as she got older) but I wonder if it's not more of a difference in that I/my family expect to operate in chaotic/messy environments and it's sort of a workaround for me (us), whereas probably most people expect their environment to be basically clean and functional, and if they cannot or will not clean it first then they simply continue to operate as though it was clean and functional. I grew up in an all-female home and I often incorrectly attributed things to being female vs male when it was actually my family vs the world.

Anyway I am now wondering if I am a complete and total weirdo or if anyone else does this? I think in some ways it makes me quite adaptable as I can operate in (what seems to me) a safe and effective way even in a chaotic environment, but I have realised that other people do not see it this way, it is seen as quite dysfunctional.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 11:11

...Nobody? Maybe I should have put it in AIBU with a vote after all Xmas Grin

OP posts:
Springcleaninginsummer · 04/12/2023 11:16

Perhaps the housekeeping section would help more?

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 11:18

Ah maybe, but I wasn't particularly wanting advice, I was just curious as to whether this is something that is only normal/reasonable in my own head and most people are more like my DH.

OP posts:
Legomania · 04/12/2023 11:19

I guess it is unusual in that most people who are concerned about 'contamination' wouldn't tolerate living in a dirty and messy environment

HowAboutTheLittleSpoon · 04/12/2023 11:20

I'm probably inbetween. I've been known to just clean the one hob to cook, rather then clean the whole kitchen and would also do your bedroom thing but I am also pretty careless and often damage/ruin stuff. It's one of the things I hate about myself the most. I think I'm just lazy, but I just can't bring myself to do some things at times. I don't have ADHD, although DH thinks I might, and I can see why.

eurochick · 04/12/2023 11:20

I sort of get what you mean. If I'm not sure if the worktop was cleaned after its last use and I want to make a sandwich, I would make it on a plate or whopping board and stop the food coming into contact with the worktop. Is that what you mean?

Octavia64 · 04/12/2023 11:21

I'm like you.

However I have chronic pain and frequently need to cook etc in a kitchen that isn't completely clean.

If I stopped to clean the kitchen I wouldn't have the energy to cook so I clean a section and use that.

MrsElsa · 04/12/2023 11:26

You are using a lot of mental energy to do all of this. If you could get on top of it and stay there you would get that energy back.

With ADHD, the clutter and mess you describe can be almost a deliberate coping mechanism to try and draw off the excess mental energy iyswim.

Try Clutterbug on youtube, she has ADHD.

Stephisaur · 04/12/2023 11:38

This is exactly me and it drives my husband mental!

Usually I will just clear the minimum space required for my cooking utensils and a chopping board. Hopefully, this might spur me on to unload/reload the dishwasher.

Not always though!

Familiaritybreedscontemptso · 04/12/2023 11:45

This sounds very stressful to me. I wouldn’t be able to function in the level of clutter / mess you describe so would have to clean first. I can’t get my head around why you are keeping lots of McDonald’s wrappers for example. Why don’t they go straight in the bin?

I wouldn’t just plough on with using a dirty workspace though. But I clean as I go so it isn’t ever really dirty anyway.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 11:49

Legomania · 04/12/2023 11:19

I guess it is unusual in that most people who are concerned about 'contamination' wouldn't tolerate living in a dirty and messy environment

Yes perhaps. And I have obviously had the thought about how it would be much easier if I could just keep things maintained in the first place. I am getting better at this - the kitchen counters are probably clean about 80% of the time now for example whereas it used to be a tip 90% of the time.

But I also don't think these things are mutually exclusive? Because yes, logically, I suppose I could avoid the issue of contamination of new/clean food from old food, or contamination of a pile of paperwork by a dirty wet cloth, by ensuring that old food is always cleaned off and paperwork is always put away. But this task, as a whole, of keeping the entire house clean at all times, is something that I find extremely overwhelming and daunting (and honestly still feels unrealistic, even though I know other people manage plus we are getting closer to it) whereas you can also solve the same problem just by isolating the thing to be protected from the source of the damage/contamination, and this is easy and instant and adaptable to literally any situation.

But I know that for example when my health visitor was concerned about the state of my house she didn't see any difference in preparing a sandwich for my toddler directly on an unwiped counter (which I would never do) vs getting a clean chopping board and preparing the sandwich on that (which I think is perfectly functional, even if not normal).

OP posts:
ALightOverThere · 04/12/2023 11:50

This sounds quite stressful and probably more faff than just cleaning properly.

I didn’t understand the part about McDonalds wrappers. Why are you keeping these?

DelurkingAJ · 04/12/2023 11:53

If I were cooking and needed a surface that eg had dirty stuff waiting for the dishwasher to finish, I would clear and clean the surface (either by emptying the dishwasher and putting the dirty stuff in or by popping them in the sink).

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/12/2023 11:57

Yes, I do this.
And dp doesn't and living with her often baffles me.
We both have adhd.
She seems to have the "doesn't see mess" kind.
I like to minimise the impact of my tendency towards chaos.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:03

I can’t get my head around why you are keeping lots of McDonald’s wrappers for example. Why don’t they go straight in the bin?

They would not really be kept as such but for example if DH had brought the bag(s) home and put them on the table in order to divide food out to each person, wrappers would be on the table as the food is getting divided, particularly for younger children (happy meal age) getting their food put onto a plate - I would prefer to keep mine in the wrapper to maintain the most heat but as you eat, some of the wrapping also gets taken off and it is then sort of next to where you are eating - I wouldn't stand up mid meal to take something to the bin. But I might for example keep the empty bag handy on the table while opening the food and put the wrappers straight into it to keep them contained, whereas DH and older DS would probably just leave them on the table where they had fallen, until a clean up operation at the end.

The rubbish from the McDonald's meal might get cleared away as soon as everyone had finished eating or might get forgotten about for an hour or two, not left for longer than this - the bigger issue in this case is that there might be things on the table which had been left from previous activities which I don't want to get grease on them, like paperwork which had been half sorted and not yet put away, or drawings the kids had done earlier, or a jigsaw which has been completed and not tidied up, or something taken off the youngest and placed out of reach.

I know that it is all a bit chaotic and probably someone who is on top of things wouldn't have all this stuff left on their table and might for example have everyone eating the takeaway around the table, which we rarely do, and then the activity (of eating) has a set end point at which it is natural to clean up.

That's what made me/my mum think that when we do this it is sort of an adaptation from living in a chaotic environment, to try to be aware of the surroundings and try to avoid damaging things because the environment is unsorted. And perhaps people who are used to living in a more ordered environment do not need/think to do this because there is no situation where things that need to be protected come into contact with things that can cause harm or damage. And when they do work with or use substances which can cause damage to other items (water, grease, spilled food, paint, dirt etc) they can immediately clean away the problem and so it is not going to damage any future items which might also be used in that space.

OP posts:
ALightOverThere · 04/12/2023 12:08

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:03

I can’t get my head around why you are keeping lots of McDonald’s wrappers for example. Why don’t they go straight in the bin?

They would not really be kept as such but for example if DH had brought the bag(s) home and put them on the table in order to divide food out to each person, wrappers would be on the table as the food is getting divided, particularly for younger children (happy meal age) getting their food put onto a plate - I would prefer to keep mine in the wrapper to maintain the most heat but as you eat, some of the wrapping also gets taken off and it is then sort of next to where you are eating - I wouldn't stand up mid meal to take something to the bin. But I might for example keep the empty bag handy on the table while opening the food and put the wrappers straight into it to keep them contained, whereas DH and older DS would probably just leave them on the table where they had fallen, until a clean up operation at the end.

The rubbish from the McDonald's meal might get cleared away as soon as everyone had finished eating or might get forgotten about for an hour or two, not left for longer than this - the bigger issue in this case is that there might be things on the table which had been left from previous activities which I don't want to get grease on them, like paperwork which had been half sorted and not yet put away, or drawings the kids had done earlier, or a jigsaw which has been completed and not tidied up, or something taken off the youngest and placed out of reach.

I know that it is all a bit chaotic and probably someone who is on top of things wouldn't have all this stuff left on their table and might for example have everyone eating the takeaway around the table, which we rarely do, and then the activity (of eating) has a set end point at which it is natural to clean up.

That's what made me/my mum think that when we do this it is sort of an adaptation from living in a chaotic environment, to try to be aware of the surroundings and try to avoid damaging things because the environment is unsorted. And perhaps people who are used to living in a more ordered environment do not need/think to do this because there is no situation where things that need to be protected come into contact with things that can cause harm or damage. And when they do work with or use substances which can cause damage to other items (water, grease, spilled food, paint, dirt etc) they can immediately clean away the problem and so it is not going to damage any future items which might also be used in that space.

I’m still a bit confused by this. Surely the effort you’re making to keep all the wrappers in one place and away from your paperwork is greater than the effort would be to put them in the bin.

It sounds as if your method sort of works for you in that your environment is partially under control. But it also sounds a lot more stress and effort than having routines that could bring it fully under control.

The Slob Comes Clean podcast is very helpful for practical tips.

newnamethanks · 04/12/2023 12:11

I'm untidy but not dirty. I wouldn't prepare food as you describe, I'd have to clean the whole surface first.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:12

It doesn't feel stressful to me at all. It feels perfectly natural and normal, I suppose I am used to it.

I find it much more stressful to try and keep all possible things put away and all surfaces clean, mainly because I'm always behind at this and then I find it upsetting/frustrating and constantly feel I am failing and it is hopeless and I'll never be able to do it. When I have managed to do this (e.g. kitchen) it is lovely but it is a constant proactive effort and I struggle with the proactive bit (that is definitely ADHD.)

This said I do need to go and do the dishwasher before I pick up DC!

I am getting there with finally having found a medication that works for me and learning/forming new habits, which are actually sticking this time - and undoing layers upon layers of bad habits which have got in the way, which is the slow part.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:16

Surely the effort you’re making to keep all the wrappers in one place and away from your paperwork is greater than the effort would be to put them in the bin.

How? The bin is in another room, behind a baby gate in a cupboard and has a lid, whereas the bag is right there and I can put the wrappers into it immediately one by one without having to walk through the whole length of the house x however many wrappers. All I have to do is ensure that the bag is on a different part of the table to the pile.

OP posts:
ToDoListAddict · 04/12/2023 12:21

I'm like you. If it's too overwhelming to clean the whole kitchen to prep food, I'll clean an area to prep but my husband will declare it's impossible to make any food.
Our house is also messy and chaotic but I'm careful with the items, but like your husband, mine will just chuck stuff on top of stuff or just trample on top of things.
I also grew up in a chaotic house and my mum was a terrible housekeeper but now she's quite tidy but I think it's more to do with my stepdad as he's very tidy and cleans up after her a lot.

KatBurglar · 04/12/2023 12:22

I do this a bit - I will move stuff off half the island and clean that to do food prep on that rather than tidy and clean the whole space before starting.

That's because my priority is getting the food made on time, not sorting the whole room out.

DH will tidy the whole thing before starting, and then we end up eating later. Or he gets fed up and orders takeaway rather than tidy up.

This is only when it's got particularly cluttered, not every day.

I'm happy to clear a space to work/write/sew in, I can ignore the rest. DH can't concentrate in clutter

But DH can work/write/whatever with background music or noise, and I need quiet to concentrate.

Elvanseshortage · 04/12/2023 12:37

OP I have ADHD too and can totally relate to your struggle to keep on top of things. It’s hard to imagine how hard it is if you don’t have ADHD.

What I notice from your posts though (and other people have already pointed this out) is that you are expending an awful lot of mental energy in creating these tidy ‘islands’ for yourself and I am sorry to say it’s not a very rational way to deal with the chaos. I think you know it but you are trying to push this reality away by getting other people on here to agree with you, and deflecting your frustration by getting annoyed with other people at home because they are not following your system. They never will, because it’s not rational. Nobody will ever be able to read your mind and understand what it is you have decided is clean or unclean.

It is really hard ( I know this because I have been through it myself) but you will have to work out a series of routines and habits which mean that your home is properly organised. At first it will appear to dominate your life most of the time, the mental energy will be enormous. But, like any other period of intense learning it will, little by little become automatic until you hardly think about it at all and then you can get on with your life without having to keep establishing avoidant rules for yourself. Because that’s what the clean islands thing is.

ALightOverThere · 04/12/2023 12:46

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:16

Surely the effort you’re making to keep all the wrappers in one place and away from your paperwork is greater than the effort would be to put them in the bin.

How? The bin is in another room, behind a baby gate in a cupboard and has a lid, whereas the bag is right there and I can put the wrappers into it immediately one by one without having to walk through the whole length of the house x however many wrappers. All I have to do is ensure that the bag is on a different part of the table to the pile.

But you're going to have to put them in the bin eventually- you're just adding another step.

I don't want to knock it if you have found a system that is working well for you but it doesn't sounds as if this is working that well- eg the fact that you carefully tiptoe through things on the floor but your DH just ploughs through. I don't think the fix is to teach him to tiptoe like you do- this way of living is unusual and I think you're getting disproportionate responses from people who do something similar. I agree with @Elvanseshortage that it might be worth working on some routines to make things a bit easier, even if in the short term that's harder work than carrying on as you are.

ANightingale · 04/12/2023 12:50

🎼Islands in the mess, that is what we are ...

InattentiveADHD · 04/12/2023 12:52

I'm a bit like you and have ADHD. And your partner sounds like my partner. Eg I could go in a kitchen and clear a small space and cook, my DH would have to clear the whole kitchen or couldn't cope. I am conscious of that "raw meat" chopping board/container etc shouldn't touch anything we might eat off etc whereas my DH has to be reminded about this stuff constantly. I can cope with things being on the floor, I will see them and avoid them, whereas he'll step on them and break them. He is also quite careless with things generally whereas I am careful to keep things nice and unbroken.

Some of that may be ADHD related (as people with ADHD tend to be messy and disorganised and what you describe could be a coping mechanism) I'm not sure but I put a lot of it down to the fact I grew up in a hoarder's home, and my DH grew up in a show home. There wouldn't be anything out of place in his home as it was always clean and tidied away so he didn't need to watch out for things in the floor. Whereas stuff was always everywhere in my home, it was quite dirty, and there was always loads of shit all over the kitchen sides do you get very used to working around stuff. And ensuring clean stuff didn't touch dirty stuff. It's not an OCD thing (people might get confused when you talk about "contamination" but I know what you mean), it's just a dealing with lots of things in a space thing.

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