Schools demand national campaign against parents who are abusive to school staff

[noblegiraffe]

A survey suggests that 30% of classroom teachers and 75% of headteachers have received verbal abuse from parents this year, a marked increase on before the pandemic.

The North East Schools network would like to see a national NHS-style campaign to highlight the issue and to say that abuse against school staff is never appropriate. Given that there are many public places that have signs up saying 'abuse against staff will not be tolerated' it always surprises me that this is not already a thing in schools.

Interestingly the article notes "While most interactions with parents were positive, there were small groups of parents “willing to be abusive towards school staff” – including complaints straight to external government agencies.
These bodies, such as Ofsted, the Department for Education and the Education and Skills Funding Agency “should only get involved once the school has completed their complaints procedure”."

Perhaps all those on here who rush to write 'complain to Ofsted' about some school incident should take note that they are part of the problem.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-demand-national-campaign-against-abusive-parents/

Oh dear god have you actually read the article linked to in the OP where it talks about vexatious complaints and people ignoring the school complaints procedure to inappropriately complain to external bodies?

Have you read the posts where it has been explained to you that it is not about parents who have legitimate complaints and who have exhausted other avenues?

Have you read the posts where it has been explained to you where it is not about desperate parents of SEN children?

If not, go back and bloody read them.

Stop trying to put words into my mouth.

RAAC.

When I was at school I had a long strip light fall onto my desk, narrowly missing my head.

We also had ceiling tiles falling into classrooms and corridors. That school is still in use with 25 more years of wear and tear.

Forced to stand outside for 15 mins at break and 45 mins at lunchtime even in freezing conditions due to lack of staffing to supervise multiple classrooms. Rushed to eat lunch in just a few minutes as the next group need to come in.

Freezing cold classrooms.

Chairs thrown around, desks tipped over, swearing, violence, drugs on too many occasions.

I could go on.

Isolations for ultra petty issues. Isolations prevent that dc from learning and being on their own all day is damaging. Not sure why schools changed from internal exclusion rooms with a teacher and TA supporting those dc to continue their work to them just sitting in an Isolation booth all day for minor infractions. My manager couldn't send me to Isolation or prevent me coming to work for dying my hair. If I did something wrong then that would be discussed. I wouldn't be punished.

I don't understand why schools don't link the continuing of taking autonomy away from parents and children with increasing frustration. It makes perfect sense, the more schools have clamped down on removing autonomy and say (and now the OP wants their voice removed further by them not reporting concerns outside of the school) the more disempowered parents and dc act in challenging ways.

and now the OP wants their voice removed further by them not reporting concerns outside of the school

Another one who hasn't read the thread.

There is an evidence base on how to do this. See the BPS responses to government consultations for good examples. It does not involve draconian sanctions for minor misdemeanours, but building relationships and promoting a culture of mutual respect and understanding, in calm environments.

I appreciate the pressure teachers feel from a regulator that does not meet them with a similarly compassionate and safe stance. And I really do sympathise with this. But that does not mean the few remaining checks and balances on the power exerted over children in schools, should be removed, it means the regulator should be reformed.

@Titicacacandle If a school isn’t dealing with incidents of racism properly then you should follow the grievance procedure- just like you would at work. Sweating and abusing staff is not the way.

The same goes for violent incidents @Desecratedcoconut The issue schools have is that all children have a right to an education (which is how it should be). If you have a violent student whose parents don’t engage then there is little you can do beyond detention. It takes a long time to put together enough evidence for a permanent exclusion. We are going through this right now with a boy who has SEND needs but is extremely violent- has broken bones of two other students. His mum won’t let us send him to alternate provision to get the help he needs and we can’t make him go. And the evidence to exclude him is vast. We have to keep him and try to police him until we can gather enough. It is almost impossible. She also won’t let us give after school detentions and often refuses exclusions. In a work place you can scan some. At school you can’t.

And the toilet thing is for their safety. Many workplaces have set breaks or require people to time their visits. As a teacher I can’t leave my lesson to go to the loo. I have to plan ahead. Lots of high pressure jobs are the same.

No.

Parents shouting at teachers is never acceptable. Teachers have no control over SEND funding, SEND support etc.

You said: Perhaps all those on here who rush to write 'complain to Ofsted' about some school incident should take note that they are part of the problem.

I have pointed this out and you are at swearing at me. I haven't been discourteous to you. I have merely disagreed with you. This is the problem.

The question was how do children have to put up with a more hostile environment than adults in the workplace. You can tell me why schools are hamstrung but that doesn't change the fact.

*You said: Perhaps all those on here who rush to write 'complain to Ofsted' about some school incident should take note that they are part of the problem.

I have pointed this out and you are at swearing at me. I haven't been discourteous to you. I have merely disagreed with you. This is the problem*

Yes. You are attributing malice to ignorance. A campaign to make clearer the various stages to address complaints against the school makes more sense if you have an axe to grind about parents not following a standard process.

Adults work in schools too. Children aren't in schools alone. The staff with them have very little control over staffing levels, curriculum content, school rules and SEND support. If you have concerns they should be broached professionally and with the correct person, not by yelling and threatening teachers and TAs.

No, the problem is that you have refused to read anything I have read explaining that comment being about vexatious or inappropriate complaints and the tendency on MN for threads about minor school incidents to have someone leap on the thread with 'complain to Ofsted'. Any teacher who posts on MN school threads knows what I mean.

You aren't disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with something you've made up in your head about how I don't think parents should be able to make legitimate complaints.

Can you please pack it in, it's getting really tedious?

Whether it's acceptable or not, the reality is that it's going to happen. Parents have so many additional stressors that the school stress can often bubble over and the petty minor things that schools have decided to manage by being ultra fixed on is going to lead to parents getting cross.

My ds once ended up with a hole in one of his shoes after playing football at break, it was raining, he wasn't allowed to put his navy pe trainers on because they weren't black, he had to walk to his different lessons in the rain with one of his feet getting and staying wet. That wouldn't happen in a workplace. I was out of county with work, there was zero let up about his being able to wear his navy shoes instead. Schools are not helping dc learn. You can't learn if you're uncomfortable, you can't learn if you're being bullied, you can't learn if you're worried about your period leaking but you're not allowed to go to the loo and there isn't enough time between lessons to go. Schools are as part of the problem of parental abuse as the parents.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the observation that children have a more hostile environment compared to working adults. That their access to have their assault investigated and addressed by the police is channelled back to the organisation in which the assault occured.

I'm not sure how you aren't understanding this simple answer to a simple question.

And it's this kind of dynamic, unfair on both teachers and parents, that breeds tension between the two.

So maybe schools should go back to purely providing education and not being multi disciplinary hubs for mental and physical well being, matters for social services, and anger management? Maybe they should leave that to parents who should be taking ultimate responsibility for their own kids rather than expecting the school to do it for them? Equally you wouldn’t expect to be violently assaulted in the workplace so why should teachers put up with it?

@Titicacacandle if the school has a rule (however puerile you feel it is) about dying hair then why would you challenge it if you know the result is internal exclusion?
The school I used to work in had pairs of primark plimsolls for those who worse trainers in. Change them or go to inclusion. They soon changed them. The school was strict and got results.

No one wants a child to go to inclusion. I would turn it round and say the students behaviour prevents them from learning by being placed in inclusion. Most schools I know have internal manned inclusion rooms and then long term ones.I would have to show how I have challenged poor behaviour and what steps I have made to keep the child in lesson eg time out with a TA before it would be considered.

Most things that are being complained about are a: government policies eg sen provision. The county council I work in has pledged to halve sen provision to private sen schools by 2028. Mainstream Schools will be expected to take them and specialist provision less usual regardless of parental choice. It just won't be available.

The toilet thing has been done to death. We allow one trip per lesson (I work in a tiny PRU) but they literally all go every lesson. To vape. To disrupt other lessons. To dawdle. Mostly anything other than go to the loo. It's a safety thing. And they are locked and taken by a ta with a key.

There is no money and there is a lack of staff. Things are going to get a lot worse.

That doesn't mean it's ok to abuse staff. We absolutely try our best.

@Sherrystrull agreed.
The minute you start shouting at me you have lost the moral high ground and our meeting is over.
I had two boys at sen schools. I didn't scream and ball to get what I wanted. I treated people with respect as they do a difficult job.

No, I am disagreeing with you, as is my right on a public discussion forum. Whilst you swear at me and suggest my right to express my view is in some way illegitimate. This really does get to the heart of the matter.

@Titicacacandle

So because parents are stressed school staff should accept being abused and threatened?
Should hospital staff accept it from patients? Should retail staff accept it from customers? Should I accept it from a person I meet in the street?

I don't think teachers or pupils should be violently assaulted! If you were being assaulted those that care about you would be upset on your behalf wouldn't they? So parents are going to be upset when their child has been assaulted. I'd expect school staff to have the conflict resolution skills to manage an upset parent and to reassure them how they will prevent their child being harmed at school again. Schools need to take accountability for the provision they provide and make it safe. When they go wrong they need to manage it and manage complaints better.

Harsh punishments don't work. If they did the reoffending rates in the youth criminal justice system wouldn't be so high. Harsh punishments cause the disenfranchised to become more isolated from society. I personally didn't let my dc dye their hair and they didn't challenge school staff on uniform. Yet when my ds needed the rule to be bent once just slightly to avoid having a wet foot all day the inflexibility was paramount. These types of incidents lead to parents not working with the school, parents seeing the school as the enemy and parents bubbling up with frustration.

No, you have made some quite disgusting allegations against me which are not true and are not backing down despite being told that you are wrong.

But they can’t prevent their child being harmed. How can they? If a child is aggressive and isolating them is ‘damaging’ then what do you expect? They’re not magicians. You seem to be confusing children with small adults, they’re not. I would love to hear your ideas on how to run a school of hundreds of children, many of whom are utterly uncontrollable or violent, while using very very gentle methods of punishment, all on a shoe string and with half the staff that are needed. Can you make any suggestions?

No of course I don't think school staff should be shouted at. I can just see why a parent can reach the end of their tether and shout. Some parents don't have the emotional regulation to manage when their dcs are being hurt physically and emotionally during the school day. Added to that the inflexibility and lack of autonomy that parents now deal with, I can see why it bubbles over. If schools gave parents a voice, if schools actually created safe environments for dc to learn and if schools actually became a bit more tolerant and flexible there wouldn't be such issues.