Uni and foreign students would you say anything?

[thebraispink]

My DD is at uni doing a creative subject and basically she is having to help and support all of the foreign students with their work.

The uni have taken on so so many students who don't speak English over 60% of her course and put no translators in place, so my DD is having to help explain everything to those poor students who have broken English at best.

The uni has literally just taken all the money, it's making my DD course really dumbed down and keeping her back, it's not great for the foreign students as they are pretty out of their depth and miserable.

From my stance we are paying a shit ton for this course, and its teaching is poor and the overall experience is a bit shit.

All of these students will leave after 3 years, and take this education to their countries which is great but it leaves the UK students with a sub standard experience and shitty degree.

Should there be a limits on how many students can be from overseas? Should the uni have to provide interpreters? Is anyone else's kids in the same situation?

We are considering moving her from the uni on these grounds as she spends more time helping her peers than she does being taught.

@ludocris that doesn't make me happy, I'd like international students who have specifically tailored programs to meet their academic needs, Buckingham the private university does them very well.

Those saying fail the students, even if I Individually fail a student, I'm only one marker and most are decided by a panel, marks are often found to help them over the pass line. This also happens with poor domestic students as well. It's hard to fail these days.

OP is absolutely right. My sister lectures at one such university and has been raising this issue for years.

I would tend to believe the OP
Over 20 years ago when I was at Uni there were 3 Chinese students living in our small halls (22 people) who didn't speak any English at all.

Some of my hall mates were in classes with them and they could not follow the lectures.

They would occasionally bring friends round to translate any issues or conversations they wanted to have with the rest of us or to be included in halls meetings.

This Uni is still notorious for bringing in a lot of Chinese students, even chartering flights during covid for them to attend lectures while being isolated in halls bedrooms for months at a time.

Which is exactly what's happened on this thread and why I'm asking if I should say anything.

I'm sorry to hear is a global issue to be honestly I was thinking I was a London problem.

It's not just a London problem, it's happening at Leeds University too.

@angsanana she specifically chose London because she knew she would get to meet and expand her world view, she is as far from racist as you can get and isn't actually white herself which is besides the bloody point.

But she has parents who have travelled the world woeked overseas and who are open minded and fully supported her degree in London.

The issue is the fact they can't speak English at all and she is being put in groups with them and having to spend her degree time nurturing those students. Who I may add are perfect lovely bloody kids but they are scared shitless very lost and are still crying on occasions when asked to show their work.

My DD has even questioned if she should learn mandarin a bit to help.

I'm personally pissed off even more as I'm in the industry my DD is training in and I'd like to know what standard my next staff and industry's beginners are getting and frankly it's shit. And making them unemployable.

My DD is indeed an adult and a very articulate adult and from this thread she is going to ask for groups to be considered by language ability.

They do have but some have limited English. I wouldn’t believe it myself 2 years ago but just last week a friend (a lecturer at uni) said that a first year student came for a meeting and couldn’t answer very simple question. It wasn’t cultural misunderstanding, it was clearly the case of this student having limited English. The question was very simple so wasn’t avoidance strategy or anything like this.
unfortunately universities take lot of foreign students to get more money.

I have read a lot about fraudulent English qualifications, and I understand it's a big problem. I don't really have any practical advice. My DD is on a teeny-tiny creative course, adjacent to yours, at a small art school (not in London!), and the cohort is so small that the tutors know everyone individually, and pick up problems very quickly. That might be the only solution, but obviously it's really expensive. I imagine that an art school costs a fortune and, like STEM, is usually subsidised by other departments. That isn't a possibility for CSM (or UAL more generally) who have to move to large cohorts including international students to stay afloat.

@rookiemere it's a concern yes I would look closely and ask uni how they manage the language situation.

And thank you, as a genuine concern I expected the twats to be out in force I'm not new to mumsent but I also knew some lovely posters would give sound advice, so other than wind up the idiots I've had some amazing support.

@ChristieEve the English needed for a graphic design degree is likely to be the same level as any academic course.

The students need to read a brief explain what they have created and present this with thinking on a regular basis. Then to secure a job in our industry work with clients, manage workloads etc they would again need a good level.

The issues isn't just talking it's understanding the most basic of tasks.

She's aware it's her choice, and is starting to look at options. I think the more we learn on the thread to more she is feeling like she won't be supported if she asks to not be in the groups. Abs she is one of the few who wants a career in her industry.

This register question to clarify she showed me on her phone, she didn't email or share the information, which isn't a GDPR breach. Besides the overall fact the GDPR in itself was a giant money making waste of time, I'll save that for another thread. 🙄

My DH has been a uni lecturer for 27 years. He can verify the OP's DD's experience - many of his foreign students' English language accreditations have clearly been faked, as he finds out when he encounters them in person at lectures, seminars etc, and receives written work from them. And yes, he has expressed his concerns to the relevant persons. He was basically told to shut up and get back in his box. The unis basically take the money and run.

Wow, this is a bizarre thread. The OP has described what is happening at her daughter's uni and how it is affecting her education. Several others have corroborated this with first hand experience.

Yet still there are posters coming on saying it can't possibly happen, and basically calling the OP and/or her daughter liars and racists.

OP, you should know that many on MN are a self-styled experts at absolutely everything, including matters of which they have no direct experience whatsoever!

See my previous post.

@thebraispink it is a GDPR breach. It's disclosing or giving access to information that could be personally identifiable. In the big scheme of things if it's only names, it's unlikely to actually make the individuals identifiable, unless it was a very unusual name.

Nonetheless it's a GDPR breach.

@ludocris do you work for the ICO by any chance? If not please go away and rage at some other posters about breaching GDPR

Viewing information in a group situation that has no identifying emails or personal data that isn't going to be used or shared is not a breach of any rules you seem to be making up as you go along?

I'm still struggling to see your point, or what you'd like me to do with your wealth of GDPR knowledge? Report someone to the Uni? Stop my daughter having access to her class register? Take up your GDPR breach with google docs?

If you could tell me what I can possibly do to help you that would be great.

Well said. These terminally offended people are actually hilarious. Just ignore.
As I said, I've just finished my masters and constantly had a whole list of cohort names for viva exam times, for group work, for formative assessment opportunities and to sign in on an online register - that even had DOBs of on it. Shock horror!

@Nowanextraone I was kind of hoping this thread would come to a natural end and I could just move on with the brilliant advice but I couldn't resist one small reply to the GDPR police, who are posting on the inter web... I almost feel like submitting this to the daily mail just to show how un-GDPR life really is.

There are lots and lots of people who see any issue raised that includes ‘foreign’ (ie non white or non English speaking) as any aspect of the issue as racist in the first instance.

They either have absolutely no idea what racism actually is or are incapable of critical thinking to drill down to the actual issue instead of just screaming ‘racism!! Racism!!’ as their first response.

It’s is bizarre and quite frankly concerning, as it’s starting to have a negative impact on lots of things in society. As people can’t speak up about genuine issues for fear of being labelled racist. As per the OP.

Absolutely this, 100%
Like you say, it impacts every part of society now, negatively

I'm not remotely enraged. I'm just correcting your misunderstanding. Your daughter has breached GDPR rules by showing you a list of names that you do not have a right to view. I care about this not one jot, I'm simply saying she should be careful because it's a data breach. What should you do about it? Nothing, unless you're planning to make a complaint to the university about the matters raised in your OP, in which case the thing you should do is not mention that your daughter showed you the register.

To the other poster who referred to lists of names with DOBs - not that you seem interested in hearing facts about this but the DOBs shouldn't have been shared with you. However you having access to the class list yourself is very different to you accessing it for your friends or relatives to view.

I know you don't care about this. I have no skin in it either. I'm just correcting what are clearly misunderstandings about data protection law.

@thebraispink
I'm not here to cry racism or cast doubt on your daughter's experience or observations.

The taking of language exams by proxies is a very well known practice and even when the actual prospective student does sit the exams in person, passing is not really any indication they will be able to understand regional accents, lectures delivered at a fast clip, complex assignments, or cultural references/ figures of speech within lectures. They're a very poor instrument.

However, your daughter should not have shared the class register with you. You should delete it, and you should make no reference to it whatsoever if you get in touch with the university. Your daughter shouldn't mention it either.

If she has the register without contact details of students included, it's not really clear why she has it. Presumably students might have access to it in order to facilitate contact for the purposes of group projects, but without contact details this makes access to the register pointless.

Wrt GDPR, sharing lists of names with people not affiliated with the university for any purpose, even general interest, may be prohibited. I'm pretty sure you as a private citizen couldn't even lay your hands on this list under FOI regs. Percentage of students of various national origins, maybe, from the university. But not the names.