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Elderly/non-independent man in hospital, what are his rights?

50 replies

Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 10:43

I’m in A&E for assessment for something. I’ve been put on a sort of holding ward which seems to be for people who they deem to need monitoring/regular obs while waiting for the doctor or maybe who cannot wait in the normal waiting room for some reason.

Theres an elderly man opposite me who has been brought in because he had a fall. He’s almost completely deaf (hence why I know all the details as he has to shout to hear himself and the nurses have to shout for him to hear them). He wants to go home and they’re saying he’s “not allowed” because they have to be sure he’s not going to fall again. I understand that and they need to put his safety first. He occasionally tries to get up to walk and they come over and sit him back down. This is not entirely consensual on his part from what I can tell but at the same time I understand that they can’t allow him to potentially fall again and injure himself.

The thing that is making me a bit uncomfortable about how he’s being treated is that he keeps asking for someone to phone his wife. He’s saying that he wants her to get a taxi here to be with him and so she’s not at home alone. Other people on this ward have relatives with them so in theory it seems like she could be here too. He is able to very clearly explain to the nurses what he wants them to say to his wife on the phone. Each time he asks “have you phoned my wife” someone says “not yet but I’ll go and do it now” or occasionally “we’ll phone her in a bit but we’re very busy”. Each time they have this conversation he tries to persuade them again that they need to phone her, and the discussion between him and the nurse takes longer than it would for them to just bloody phone her. Nurses are chatting happily with other patients, I have had offers of cups of tea etc and they don’t seem particularly under the kosh.

To be clear, I’m aware that with older people there may be issues I don’t know but it doesn’t seem to be a case of eg he’s got dementia and is asking them to phone his wife who actually died ten years ago. I’ve overheard the nurses saying to each other “are you gonna phone her” “yeah I’ll do it in a bit” etc. This has been going on for over an hour. I know nurses are extremely busy but they have had multiple conversations with him about this now all of which have taken longer than a phone call to his wife. It makes me feel so uneasy that he’s basically begging them to phone his wife and they either lie and say “I’ll do it now” then don’t or they say “I’ll do it in a little while”. He’s quite upset and every time someone goes past he pleads “will someone please just quickly phone my wife”.

I feel awful for him as he has no mobile phone, he says his eyesight is too bad to text and he cannot hear on the phone so I can’t even just offer him my own phone to allow him to call her. I feel like I need to say something but also don’t want to make their jobs even harder. WWYD? It must be such a horrible feeling for him to be pleading with them and worrying about his wife alone at home and to just keep being ignored.

OP posts:
Seeingadistance · 10/11/2023 10:50

Are you mobile? In this situation, I think I’d go over to the man and phone his wife for him. Different context, but I once had to phone the AA for an elderly man whose car had broken down - he had no phone and also was very deaf.

HoppingPavlova · 10/11/2023 10:51

Surely his wife knows where he is and would be there if able and willing? Or, is he saying he fell in public, and wants his wife to know he is in hospital as that wasn’t done for whatever reason with the ambo’s?

Munchyseeds2 · 10/11/2023 10:53

You have no idea of the background to this,
He could well have some sort of dementia

It may not be obvious just watching from your bed
Maybe he does have a wife but she can't cope looking after him at home?
There will be a reason.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

TheFairyCaravan · 10/11/2023 10:56

You don’t know the situation at all here and imo aren’t being helpful.

My Nan used to ask us to phone her husband all the time. He had been dead for almost 40 years, she had dementia and had no idea. We could have told her we’d phoned him a million times, yet she’d still ask second later.

Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 10:58

The problem is that he’s saying “please will someone phone my wife” and they’re saying ok I’ll do it now, or ok I’ll do it in a bit. Over and over again.

If she can’t be phoned or if she has been phoned but she can’t or doesn’t want to come in, then they need to tell him that they HAVE phoned her and she’s fine and there’s a neighbour with her or something and she doesn’t need to come in and put his mind at rest. Their current strategy of continually lying to him isn’t working and is making him very upset.

OP posts:
Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 10:59

@TheFairyCaravan im neither being helpful nor not being helpful, because I’m literally not doing anything. I’m sat here on the bed silently. I haven’t interfered at all.

OP posts:
Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 11:00

Also from what the nurses say to each other they are actually planning on phoning her. They’re just not doing it yet.

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 10/11/2023 11:03

Seeingadistance · 10/11/2023 10:50

Are you mobile? In this situation, I think I’d go over to the man and phone his wife for him. Different context, but I once had to phone the AA for an elderly man whose car had broken down - he had no phone and also was very deaf.

This.

x2boys · 10/11/2023 11:12

I wouldn't do.anything he might have been assessed as not having capacity ,and this can be a situation ,by situation basis
But its none of your buissness .

Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 11:19

Even if someone doesn’t have capacity, do they still not have the right to ask for their next of kin to be contacted? As I say, the wife does seem to exist as the nurses are talking about contacting her but just not doing it and he is so distressed.

OP posts:
x2boys · 10/11/2023 11:22

Its really none of your buissnes ,maybe they have phoned her and left a message
Maybe she doesn't want to.be contacted
Maybe they haven't had a minute to phone her ,who.knows
But right now just concentrate on yourself.

user1497207191 · 10/11/2023 11:23

Sadly, this kind of "too busy to actually do something but having plenty of time to complain about being too busy", is becoming commonplace. I've certainly experienced similar far too many times, with someone spending several minutes explaining why they can't do something (involving unnecessary whingeing) when they could have just done it in that time. It seems to be creeping into most areas of the public sector sadly.

user1497207191 · 10/11/2023 11:26

@x2boys

Its really none of your buissnes

It's a sad society when no one is allowed to help anyone else, especially if they appear to be in distress, being abused, etc. Of course people need to step in if they see something that looks wrong. It's basic humanity. People like Harold Shipman (and a succession of subsequent NHS travesties such as maternity unit abuse, Lucy Letby etc), got away with it because they weren't challenged.

x2boys · 10/11/2023 11:30

user1497207191 · 10/11/2023 11:26

@x2boys

Its really none of your buissnes

It's a sad society when no one is allowed to help anyone else, especially if they appear to be in distress, being abused, etc. Of course people need to step in if they see something that looks wrong. It's basic humanity. People like Harold Shipman (and a succession of subsequent NHS travesties such as maternity unit abuse, Lucy Letby etc), got away with it because they weren't challenged.

You have no idea of the situation ,though I worked in Dementia care for many years ,if this man doesn't have capacity and the nurses are trying to stop.him.from leaving for his own safety its will be very unhelpful to have some well.meaning interference, from somebody who thinks they are helping ,but isn't aware of all.the facts.

Spacecowboys · 10/11/2023 11:31

It’s difficult because you don’t have all the facts regarding this gentleman’s situation and the staff do. He may have dementia , he may be a frequent attender who the staff know well and this is a pattern he follows. Some people with dementia can be told you have contacted their nok and two minutes later are asking you to do the same thing again. His wife will be aware that he is in hospital and it isn’t really appropriate to keep contacting her just because he asks them too. You’re getting snippets of conversations whilst eaves dropping. Not the whole picture.

Youthinkyoureuniqueyourejustastatistic · 10/11/2023 11:34

This is the fucking grim reality of being at the mercy of the NHS.
I have seen it with a family friend, and watched my grandad experience it so many times before he died.
Neither of whom had any dementia etc.
It took them 3 days to get my grandad a blanket when he was last in . 3 fucking days of asking. He couldn’t reach his water . Fucking grim what we do to elderly people.
More family at home to after him yet he has 2 falls in hospital and told he could have all these aids at home BUT not if he left the hospital (even though medically fit) before the admin machine rumbled.

If it was me and I was mobile, I would at least go an sit with him and chat to him. See if his TV is working and he’s nourished.

isthewashingdryyet · 10/11/2023 11:35

I suspect his wife is long dead, and rather than tell him they can’t call her because she is dead, they are fobbing him off.

imagine his reaction to learn his wife has died……. They are doing the best thing for him

EmmaEmerald · 10/11/2023 11:37

He may not have a wife

She might have asked not to be contacted, even if she is well. I have known someone to do this because she couldn't manage her husband's repeated hospital admissions and he refused to go into care.

Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 11:37

Doctor has just come. She asked if anyone has phoned his wife yet and said he’d been begging for hours. The doctor asked the nurses if she’d been called and they said “not yet” and the doctor said “why not?” And they didn’t really answer. They’ve gone off to do it now.

Seems like they were just dismissing his request. Its probably annoying that he is taking up their time and they have other things to do but I would estimate that between them they have spent well over half an hour explaining to him that either they will phone her now or explaining that they don’t have time. He’s spent this whole time unnecessarily distressed, I feel so awful for him.

OP posts:
Tonia16 · 10/11/2023 11:37

You could ask a nurse if they would like you to contact his wife.

They might tell you he has dementia, or they might be grateful that someone is willing to do a job they don't have time for.

On the other hand, they might just tell you to keep out. But at least you will have tried.

Tonia16 · 10/11/2023 11:38

Sorry, just read your update. I hope someone can contact his wife. It sounds as if the nurses were just fobbing him off.

Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 11:39

My goodness how many times do I have to say, the wife is not dead. All the nurses and doctors seem to acknowledge her existence. One of them even said it was the wife who phoned for help!

why is it that as soon as someone is old they assume they have completely lost all grip on reality. From what I can see this is a disabled man with poor eyesight and hearing who cannot independently use a phone and he has been asking for someone to call his wife on his behalf and they have all agreed but unnecessarily fobbed him off and delayed doing what he’s asked.

OP posts:
Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 11:41

@isthewashingdryyet thats not the situation but even if it were, they were not alleviating his distress with their approach. If his wife had actually been dead and they didn’t want to traumatise him by telling him then why not just say “oh it’s ok we’ve phoned Carol and it’s fine, she’s having a cup of tea with the neighbours, she knows you’re safe here you having nothing to worry about, she’s being looked after”.

OP posts:
Snugglemonkey · 10/11/2023 11:42

Seeingadistance · 10/11/2023 10:50

Are you mobile? In this situation, I think I’d go over to the man and phone his wife for him. Different context, but I once had to phone the AA for an elderly man whose car had broken down - he had no phone and also was very deaf.

I agree.

x2boys · 10/11/2023 11:44

Guibhyl · 10/11/2023 11:39

My goodness how many times do I have to say, the wife is not dead. All the nurses and doctors seem to acknowledge her existence. One of them even said it was the wife who phoned for help!

why is it that as soon as someone is old they assume they have completely lost all grip on reality. From what I can see this is a disabled man with poor eyesight and hearing who cannot independently use a phone and he has been asking for someone to call his wife on his behalf and they have all agreed but unnecessarily fobbed him off and delayed doing what he’s asked.

Im.not assuming. Anything ,
You are ,you have no idea of the full.facts if the situation and just assuming stuff by the bits of conversation you have over heard there may well.be a reason Thu haven't phones his wife ,and the new Dr might not be privy to that just yet ,or maybe they are just lazy who.knows .