Robbie Williams doc on Netflix

[MaliciaKeys]

I've just watched it (day off work and it's raining out, don't judge me) and would be interested to hear other people's opinions.

I've only watched a little bit, the first thing that has struck me though is just how monumental that age gap was considering what they were going through and the specific ages they were, 16 is so, so young, he must have had to grow up very fast and I wonder how understanding and tolerant 20+ year olds were about that.

Oh for sure.

But in this case, Robbie has a long term grudge against Jason. Robbie says Jason was the one who kicked him out of the band.

So it makes sense that this particular clip was included, because viewers might be drawn to make certain conclusions about how snappy Jason was and his apparent dislike of Robbie in that moment…

I agree with all of this. I know he's been diagnosed with a lot of things (like ADHD, which I also have) but that doesn't excuse the fact that he's a bit of an arse. He reminds me of my ex in a sort of He can dish it out, but he can't take it sort of way. He was also pretty nasty about Guy. He was awful about the UK in general, too (I understand this is a love hate thing as its the people who gave him his fame, but also destroyed his confidence in his eyes) He obviously did the whole thing in a couple of days and the sitting around in the underpants thing was just weird. It must have been discussed and agreed for some reason - think it just comes across as him being used to wanting to do it his way. Quite controlling, really.

He also looked very, very old. When the camera was on him, for the majority of the time it was framed to be cut off at this forehead. I think this was because his hair is thinning very badly.

All in all he seems pretty fucked up and it came across as quite naval gazing. I also think these type of documentaries are telling in that the subject rarely takes responsibility for their behaviour, or say sorry (I did note that he said he felt awful at the way he treated Gary) I don't think he mentioned his Mum at all and I always feel he really put her through the mill. I also think he was a bit too 'frank' with his daughter about things. He's been quite a selfish man all in all. As he said himself a few times, never quite grown up.

Also agree about the doctor giving the steroid injections being irresponsible.

Oh he realises. And he is very bitter about it.

You’re right. I am not sure that any one of us would have been able to emerge mentally unscathed from having fame at such a young age. You can’t recover from that. It not many child stars survive it - look at people like Tatum O’Neal. And then they get accused of all sorts - of being obnoxious and arrogant but you think is it any wonder. A greedy industry made millions out of them Robbie made good money but you know someone higher up the money tree made much more.

As for the split with Guy Adams things like that happen all the time. Williams had a right to make that decision. He doesn’t have to be tied to the man for life if he doesn’t want to be? Aren’t we always saying on MN that one can leave a partner for any reason? So why can’t Williams.

wow. I never dreamed I’d find myself defending RW on MN. And especially not when I am supposed to be working! What the hell has my life come to?

The steroid injection made me feel a bit sick. You can obviously get whatever drugs you want when you’re rich enough.

There’s been a lot of criticism about the fact he’s in his underpants for the majority of the documentary - I’d be interested to know the rationale behind his choice of clothing.

I do feel sorry for him. I get the impression he’s always been like a passenger in his own life? Always swept up in a wave of what other people have decided for him.

Even his home life comes across very much like his wife is the boss, she calls the shots and he is (willingly) along for the ride. Like he’s never had much autonomy at all - well, apart from the booze, drugs and self destruction.

I always remember him being interviewed by Stephan Fry about being bi-polar...I also think maybe a personality disorder.

But I did like him in TT, but as time goes on his ability to be so self absorbed wears very thin.

He may have had a difficult time, but he also is amazingly rewarded and privileged . I suppose it doesn't change mental health..but it must help!

Seems like JO had the measure of Robbie pretty early on 😏

Not seen it, and the above really says why I've very little interest. I was 'hoping' perhaps it would be less twattish, but this has sealed the fate for me

I'm on the second episode but I don't think he's coming across badly at all.

He clearly has regret about how he behaved in the past, his immaturity etc. It was too much fame too soon which he didn't know how to handle at the time.

I like him. I seem to be in the minority though!

I think he needed to marry a strong woman like Ayda, someone who would make the big decisions, like having children, where to live, and so on. Left to his own devices, he would probably be chasing after much younger women and maybe even back to using drugs and alcohol to feel better about himself.

On a purely aesthetic note, he needs to sort his hair out - either accept the balding or get something done - and up his skin care regime. He looks a lot older than 49.

I was interested to note the animosity Jason Orange displayed towards Robbie in the early days of Take That. I wonder if it was because Robbie was primarily employed to be a singer and Jason was employed for his dancing skills?

On episode 2 and I'm getting bored listening to him. Usually like sleb documentaries too.

I'm onto the last episode which I'll probably watch later, and like pp was torn between feeling sympathy for him and thinking he was completely self absorbed. But then I think maybe you're going to become self absorbed when everywhere you go people are screaming for you, when you're standing in front of thousands of people and they are quite clear in their adoration and singing words back to you that you wrote.

I think maybe in the moments that he believed it all, he was self absorbed, but then he does admit being depressed and feeling worthless and I believed him when he talked about the responsibility he felt towards everyone who relied upon him to perform, not just the fans but the people who were earning a living from him as it were, when he says stuff like "This truck, it's only here because of me, all this stuff all these people because of me" it seemed to me like he was partly cocky about it because he's so amazing and partly completely overwhelmed by it and the responsibility it brought that if he just stopped he'd have to deal with the guilt and fall out of letting other people down.
He had all those people paying to see him, turning up in their thousands chanting his name and singing his songs yet seemed far more affected by negative stuff in the press than the evidence of all that adoration.

I also got the impression (and of course I might be wrong) that Robbie felt that Guy put too much emphasis on his own part in the success, in a "You'd be nothing without me" sort of way and thus backing up what Robbie already felt about himself - worthless. And that's why they went separate ways. Whether that was what actually happened or Robbie's interpretation I don't know.

Overall I enjoyed it, but am another one who was a bit 🤔about him lying around in his pants - maybe it was to show a contrast between his 'on stage' and 'at home' personalities?

"This truck, it's only here because of me, all this stuff all these people because ofme" it seemed to me like he was partly cocky about it because he's so amazing and partly completely overwhelmed by it and the responsibility it brought that if he just stopped he'd have to deal with the guilt and fall out of letting other people down"

Yes, I agree this was possibly the most profound part of the show for me. It certainly demonstrated how much pressure was on him and how much of a head fuck it must be.
It must be shocking to be caught in a power struggle between such a huge ego and all consuming self doubt.

Re: Guy Chambers, I might go as to far as to say his lack of talent was exposed when this partnership ended. Certainly, in terms of song choice, etc. Has he now made amends, accounts vary? If Guy hadn't totally wronged him surely a better way to draw a line?

I am no musical guru but Rudebox, Robbie so defensive here and well, it's just not as good as he thinks it is [polite]. It's Iike something Kevin and Perry might come up with in their bedroom.

When he stood by the fact that he thought Rude Box was a great track, he seemed to do so in a defiant way. In the way that a teenager wouldn't back down even when they know they are wrong. Nah, nobody is buying that. It's sad that he felt he had something to prove. What was it he said? "I wrote words, I wrote melodies. I even wrote some of the music"

I remember when he first split with TT and pressed the self destruct button. He said at the time that he'd written poems. He didn't realise they were / could be songs until he collaborated and was shown the process. He seemed grateful for that help at the time. It's a shame he doesn't see that now.

What's the book called if you don't mind sharing?

@RainbowZebraWarrior yes, absolutely.

I think he has always felt a bit 'thick' (and actually he's not) BUT he isn't as talented as he possibly thinks he is, either.

He was jealous of Gary B's 'book' of completed songs and poss showed Gary B to be a bit smug, BUT...Gary B seriously talented. Robbie doesn't seem to have evolved as yet to begin to treat himself more kindly or to laugh at himself.

Only watched the first two episodes so far, will finish it tonight.

It was obvious all the way through the peak of his career he had his demons, and he didn’t really try to hide that, but watching now as an adult I almost feel guilty. I went to all the tours for his first handful of albums, up to and including Rudebox, and the bit where he was talking about the Slaine Castle gig and how he felt nothing but the interviewer was ‘can we put a bit more of a positive spin on it’ and he totally flipped his answer, really made me sad.

Coincidentally, I’m rewatching Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip just now which his wife was in. She looks totally different and was chronically underused in it.

@User14March I completely agree with your line about Rudebox.

It's Iike something Kevin and Perry might come up with in their bedroom.

I think Robbie still had the emotional maturity of a 16yo when he wrote that. Then he reacted like a thwarted16yo when people collectively told him it was crap.

He's obviously matured since marrying Ayda and having children, but I wonder how much looking after he still needs. There was a scene in the documentary towards the end, where he's getting dressed (yes, putting on a shirt and trousers on top of his grimy underpants) and a man comes in and asks him if he needs any help. Robbie says no, he's going to wear this particular shirt - but it gave the impression that he has people around him who make all the decisions on his behalf, including what to wear. Maybe that's why he chose to do the documentary in his underwear? No-one told him he'd be better in a t-shirt and joggers.

I was interested to note the animosity Jason Orange displayed towards Robbie in the early days of Take That. I wonder if it was because Robbie was primarily employed to be a singer and Jason was employed for his dancing skills?

That’s an interesting question @MaliciaKeys. From my POV, Jason Orange never came across as someone who was interested in being a frontman or singing lead vocals on That That songs (although he did sing on a couple of tracks post-comeback). Dance was his talent and his role and I think they all accepted the hierarchy in TT in the 90s, even if they resented it at times.

Having said all that, I know Howard Donald has spoken about feeling unworthy and as a “lesser” member of the band. It wouldn’t surprise me if Jason felt similar at times.

But mainly I think he came across as fucked off with Robbie for being an irritating little prick 😂

I won't watch it. Never liked Robbie. He always came across as a big headed show off who sings with a put on fake American twang of an accent. Always digging at Gary and showing off his wealth and i can't bare people who do that when you see so much suffering in the world. Would rather watch paint dry 🙄

And if he's sitting there being interviewed in his pants with disgusting armpit hair on show that still proves one of my points for disliking him, still a big head, just fancies himself and I can't bear that. But that he'd care what I think though 🤣

Really enjoying this. I love Robbie anyway but it is actually quite sad. He was so young you can see the changes.