Government to require banks to do monthly checks on the accounts of people on benefits and report back

[IncompleteSenten]

I read about this here.

metro.co.uk/2023/11/06/benefits-claimants-to-have-bank-accounts-checked-monthly-in-crackdown-19779875/

Do you think they will do it or it'll be blocked?

It sounds awful. If I was on unemployment benefit I'd feel really humiliated. I understand fraud happens but bloody hell this is really not on.

Only if they have more than £16k in their bank account in which case they don't really need you to help them out.

Well, they can't go on a luxury holiday with that money. They can't give their DC £1,000 with that money. To be accurate, they can, but the DWP will say that, to the DWP, they still have that money, and calculate their benefit accordingly.

They can use some of it for their own living. A new washing-machine, yes. Money for food and household, yes, depending how much.

Many people eg older retired claimants with no occupational pensions, won't have any money coming in to replace that Capital. The thing about Capital is - Once it's gone, it's gone.

I think it's worrying - as is the AI.

2207 DH was made redundant our sole wage earner at time. He took 4 weeks to make a claim assumed with all interviews he had line up he might not need to. Then when he did we got this very aggressive phone call what had he done with some of the redundancy money - well lived out if for last 5 weeks by then- paid bills and fed us - then got asked why it took so long for him to claim most in area do it straight away -we were nowhere near 16k in savings. That was end of it but we hadn't done anything wrong but waiting to claim had clearly flagged us up for further checks.

If money to family bank accounts start to be an issue - then amazon gift cards or cash would likely be outcome of that. I expect fraudsters will be first to avoid the checks so expected saving won't come but expensive computer systems that cost way more than it should and hasn't accounted for unusual or even not that uncommon situations causing problems for law abiding claimants will happen.

There will be cock ups by DWP as there always are and the innocent will suffer. There might also be some unnecessary stopping of claims. For example, if someone's savings temporarily go from £15999.00 to £16000 on the day the check happens, will their benefit be stopped?

I get Carer's Allowance and an occupational pension. Will the system recognise my pension payments or will it assume it is income from working and stop my CA? Will the system recognise when my husband puts money into my account or will it treat that as earned income and stop my CA? There are all sorts of pitfalls which I am not confident the DWP is competent enough to mitigate.

Whilst we're here, now that Baron and Baroness whatsit, the Michelle Mone couple, have admitted that they were gladhanded £122,000,000, yes 122 million, for useless ppe, maybe someone official could have a poke around in their bank accounts? Might be a lot more productive for the Exchequer than trying to screw an unentitled 40 quid out of some poor single parent.

Surely just tell dh not to put money into your bank account if your account is close to £16k. It's not rocket science. Pension payments usually state pension payment so that will show as unearned income.

How patronising. It is not "rocket science" to read my post properly and understand:

1. The possible issues around temporarily breaching the 16k limit was an example (clue is in the phrase "for example"), nothing to do with my personal circumstances.
2. In my own case I am not talking about capital (which is not taken into account for Carer's Allowance. You can have a million in the bank and still get CA) which is why I specified earned income from employment in that part of my post.

Anyway, I can't see anything mentioned in Charlie's speech today. Maybe it is just another one of those ideas the Tories float in the press to see whether they can scrape a few more votes together. Hopefully it will go the same way the very very short-lived and vile policy on tents.

It didn't need to be in the speech. It will be done via statutory instrument and come into effect this year

It’s in the autumn statement due on 22 November apparently. Surely they’ll have to pay the banks to do it? After all, they’re not charities.

Bankers won't be worrying about a few pennies, they've got their bonuses back. Hurrah!

High street banks won’t do this for nothing. It’s nothing to do with bankers’ bonuses. 🙄

It might be added to the code of conduct, so in order for banks to operate they must use shared banking part of which is allowing the hmrc ai to run. It won't cost banks anymore at all,no man hours. Then hmrc cross reference with uc claims, hmrc tax records etc.

WTAF? Just another attempt by this shitty government to demonise benefit claimants.

Ah, so it is an amendment to existing legislation not primary legislation. Ah well. Tory scumbags gonna scumbag.

High street banks won’t have to do anything at all.
What they are taking about is you having to give your agreement fir them to download your data.
Theyll use a system such as Snoop etc to retrieve tte data (but they won’t have access to modify it).
Then they’ll play with the info to extract information.

Note it could be used fir absolutely ANYTHING

Eg how much do you spend on shopping?
do you have recurring bank transfer - to who?
You are paying regularly for petrol so must have a car but don’t pay a car insurance…..
Our whole life is reflected in our spending. Do you really want ANYONE to have access t9 that information?

well they need voting out for many reasons that is for sure

in my case if this happens i will just leave in my account enough for DD etc and take a sum out monthly and use cash but i do use cash anyway i find it easier and handy if the kids pop to the shops etc for me

im still planning on setting up a payment of £200 a month for my son for when he goes to uni in 2yrs let them choke on that

also im Bipolar and can be very slap dash with money so i would like to see them deal with that

i refuse to take this seriously till it happens but no im not happy about the thought of that happening for many reasons especially as they have the ok to look into an account if they believe fraud,anybody that is de frauding wont be putting regular sums of money into their account thats why i think we as a whole need to look at the possible bigger picture if people think this just affects benefit claimants i think in the future it will effect all citizens

also they couldnt get UC running on time took a good few years extra and still they are cocking it up as we now see new Claims in the pandemic were not checked security wise and are sending messages on peoples journal that they need extra security checks on their claims now

also all the fraud that occurred with the buisness grants and all the false claims that happened,they are not fit for purpose i would not trust them with a paper round let alone the economy

What about people who appeal against incorrect decisions on benefits and are awarded back pay?
Currently these back pay awards are disregarded as savings for a year, and are often substantial amounts due to the amount of time it takes for DWP to process appeals.
AI would be unlikely to know to disregard these, which would add to the frustration of people who've just spent a long period of time getting what they are due.

Agreed cameleon, people throw their data around without thought already. It's becoming more frequent for sellers to refuse cash transactions, and benefit claimants, I believe, sign away virtually all their data rights to the DWP anyway. Isn't it a condition that benefits have to be paid into a bank account? I'm only surprised that they're bothering to let people know in advance of any extra interest they care to take.

I am frankly not very bothered if the authorities trawl my bank accounts for evidence of misbehaviour, because I don't misbehave. My mortage is paid off because I am old, my car is taxed and insured in accordance with the rules and has an MoT, and if you were to look through what I spend and where, HMRC will get a deathly dull picture of my utilities bills, supermarkets, butchers and pet shop buys. Which will give them an all around picture of a 67 yo woman's life. Dull, dull, dull for any investigator. Nothing to see here! I wish I could add a mirror life in which I am a master criminal but the fact is that all my income is coming from either savings/investments or state/personal pension, and all are completely transparent and tax paid. Gosh, I feel so boring.

More people are probably like me than trying to defraud the taxman. Heaven knows, I do think about it but opportunity is lacking. I just comply with the rules, like most people. So anyone who IS actively shuffling money or assets around is going to stick up as worthy of investigation when the AI crawls over the financials. And, as a tax payer, I applaud that.

If you think the system could not be abused, take look at Robodebt, invented by a right-wing Australian federal government to check up on those receiving benefits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme#:~:text=The%20Robodebt%20scheme%20was%20an,of%20its%20Centrelink%20payment%20compliance

It's a big read but a lesson in what governments can do, and no, I don't think only the Australian movement would do this.

As an aside, before being able to claim the state pension in Australia, the contents of your home are considered as assets. Coming your way in time, though the linking of NI to the SP makes it more problematic, at least for the moment.

@Papyrophile IMHO it should make no difference whether your accounts show you to be law abiding or not. Gvt has no business peering into your account, unless for very good, legally defined, reasons.

I should say, perhaps, that I don't like people having my data, full stop. I don't even have a Nectar card.

@echt when the dole started in England in the 1930s depression, the equivalent of the DWP would come to the house and tell you what to sell. They wouldn't help until you had done so.

Have you ever read Love on the Dole? A brilliant novel which sets out how unmerciful and destructive the 1930s means test was.

@echt wow, that is scary. I found a list online that says they take into account the value of:

home contents such as furniture and appliances
personal effects such as jewellery and laptops
motor vehicles
boats and caravans
licences such as commercial fishing and taxi
surrender value of life insurance policies
collections for trading, investment or hobby purposes
non business livestock.

I bet the Tories would love to implement this for benefit claimants. I doubt they would dare try it for pensions, though. Yet.

I bet the Tories would love to implement this for benefit claimants. I doubt they would dare try it for pensions, though. Yet

I agree. And when I read posters here baying for the means-testing of the state pension in the UK...they haven't a fucking clue.

The pension goes up and down in Australia, depending on whether your assets have improved/worsened. Then the OAP has get in touch with the fucking awful Centrelink (if they'll pick up the phone) or more likely go down in person to declare how their circumstances have changed yet again. Just imagine how this plays out for those not confident with phones/computers/at all.

Now imagine it for the UK.

A bit sweary but it makes me very angry indeed, both here in Australia and when I consider smug and thoughtless means-test (UK) enthusiasts on MN.