Horror I witnessed last night NHS

[ElisabethZott]

At 3pm yesterday I took my 88 yr old mum to hospital as she had an unexpected, sudden anaphylactic reaction to one of her meds and her tongue and throat swelled up to the extent she was struggling to breathe/talk/ swallow. I drove her there because I knew the ambulance wait can be hours.
I witnessed pure absolute carnage. I worked for the wonderful NHS for 30 years and yesterday I had first hand experience of the struggles the poor staff. I have never seen such a horrendous sight of so many trollies with extremely sick and dying patients lining the corridors. I couldn’t begin to count them but there were dozens and dozens. It’s only early November, I can only say, for your own sakes, unless you have a life threatening condition, do not go to A&E.
The staff were absolutely brilliant but there’s not enough of them. The care and kindness they showed us amazing. DM didn’t join the trolley queue as her airways were compromised so we went to the observation ward where she has stayed on a trolly overnight. All A&E wards were rammed to capacity with people not even having their own bay, they were just squeezed into any available space.
Once mum had steroids and anti histamines and she stabilised ( because they were working at full speed to treat other patients) the staff simply didn’t have to time or capacity to help mum. She was offered no water, no blankets no food ( her tongue swelling had gone down a little and she hadn’t eaten all day ). You can see by the tone of my post I am no way being critical of the fantastic medical team , they were pushed to the limits. I don’t really know the point of this thread except to say I am so worried what’s going to happen when winter starts properly.

Thank you NHS but you too need looking after too because you are really broken and sick

I’ve noticed this.

Whenever I’ve taken my DD (not needed to go for years fortunately) there have been at least 2 adults with one child.

I remember me and DD sitting on the floor for 5 hours and the people on the seats had 1 child, both parents and both sets of grandparents. So 6 people + the 1 sick child.

In most cases I’ve noticed at least 1 extra friend of family member for support.

I’ve also noticed both parents being there but also bringing their 3/4 extra kids with them, running around crying, getting bored and acting silly.

There’s no need to have multiple people in the A&E waiting room.

I experienced this last year with my dad. We were in A & E for 36 hours before he even got a trolly.........it was horrific. People were being seen and sent back to the waiting room on drips and had their obs checked every few hours. There were blankets put out overnight........people were trying to sleep on the floor........it was like a field hospital.........there were 12 ambulances waiting to offload.
The staff were doing their best..........there just weren't enough of them for the number of patients, all of whom looked so ill

Didn’t want to write a huge post, so adding. Last time I was in A&E, also anaphylaxis (never been allergic to anything in my life), I was seen really quickly and treated/admitted very swiftly. This was during the junior doctor strike. To be fair, it was 3am so very quiet, some guy who’d been there a while was really pissed off that they shoved me in a wheelchair and sprinted off with me!

When I had my original dvt, a woman in the next cubicle was told she had scabies. Maybe we need more education on when to use A&E, although I think some people would still go even if they have a pharmacy/GP issue.

Retired baby boomers may no longer be paying NI contributions but many of us are still paying income tax on our pensions.

My husband and I are both retired. We both have occupational pensions and he also has a state pension. We both pay income tax and expect to do so for the rest of our lives.

The people I talk to who work in the NHS tell me it was much better under Labour. Waiting lists were less than 25% of what they are now for starters. Community support services were there to accept people who needed to be discharged, and could often prevent admissions by giving timely care at home or in the community instead. And that doesn't count that fact that waiting lists are now fiddled- there are waiting lists to get on waiting lists, just like under the tories the last time.

It isn’t as simple as ‘overpopulation’.

The staffing issues in the NHS and the absolutely shit pay and conditions for HCP’s by international standards are a serious and long standing issue.

We don’t train enough HCPs - nor do we do enough to make staying in the NHS attractive to the people we do train (or recruit from elsewhere).

Then there are loads of structural issues beyond the staffing issues that make everything much worse.

The roots of this are deep. The corners cut in the foundations of everything mean the cracks and risk of collapse are very difficult and expensive to fix. Many decades of governments have contributed to this.

Does anyone really believe that a Labour government is actually going to fix this? We might get some slightly better plastering over the cracks. Possibly. But does anyone really believe any uk political
party is going to take the kind of action that would be required to fix things?

The timescales required to see the benefits are such that the 5 year election cycle absolutely incentivises yet more of the quick fix, plastering over approach.

A different time.

I went to a private hospital recently via the NHS. They've diagnosed me but can't do the operation there as they don't have the right surgeons
So now referred back to the NHS with a wait time of a year
I know it's not urgent as such but they've found I have endometriosis which has tied my ovaries together and is affecting my bladder and bowel plus cysts

On the other hand I am on an amazing expensive drug for an allergy which has been life changing and I'm so grateful for the NHS for that

There needs to be a ''Drunk enclosure'' where drunks can sleep it off without bothering nursing staff- trouble is- who would staff it?
Noisy aggressive drunks are the last thing any hospital needs when trying to deal with seriously injured/ill people.

Nobody thinks that. They just thing competent government by people who aren't entirely focussed on funnelling money to their friends might at least stop the rot.
Have you looked at things like waiting lists under successive Tory and Labour governments though?

I think this time of the year is the worst too.

Every year the NHS and other services say they cannot cope with the extra influx of people due to fireworks, as they are already stretched enough.

Yet there are still no tighter rules around them.

This TBH.

Even in 2004 when I dislocated my shoulder and broke two fingers I had to wait 5 hours to be seen (and no one gave me any pain medication). I was under 16 at the time and in absolute agony.

The NHS has been broken for years and blaming the tories is an easy cop out. All the money in the world won’t fix the NHS and even if labour magic up money from somewhere it’ll likely come from increased taxes which I am sure most of the people on this thread won’t want to pay.

The NHS spends millions on pointless surgeries and pointless jobs. It needs tearing down and something else coming in instead.

If you want the same line down how much more funding and where from?

My best wishes for a speedy recovery to your mum, and to anyone with loved ones in hospital.

The ruin of the NHS is one of the worst things to happen in my lifetime and is a complete betrayal of the people of this country. Yes, the NHS needed some work, but instead the government have ripped it apart through greed and/or incompetence. I hope they all rot.

I witnessed similar a couple weeks ago. I went to hospital for an appointment (women’s hospital) and someone sent me to the wrong floor, ended up in the middle of a ward where mainly elderly women were, buzzers were going off and hardly any staff, urine on the floors and one poor cleaner frantically trying to clean several places at once (the ward smelt of stale unine), it looked chaotic and in clean, the staff looked stressed.
I’m waiting for surgery and am now worried sick 😬.

I live in Australia and very similar issues here
Less than 10 % of medical school graduates want to be GP’s because it is a shit job and low paid compared to other specialties.
People can’t get GP appointments so go to A&E.
People can’t afford GP co payments so go to A&E.
Elderly people sitting in acute beds as not enough aged care beds. Families not wanting to pay for aged care bed as “that is my inheritance “ and insist parent waits for government funded bed. ( that patient waited 6 months in a private hospital and the hospital could only charge family $30 per day ) as we have slightly different systems here for aged care.
Ambulances ramping as not enough beds in ED. Can’t move ED patients as not enough vacant beds on wards. 10% of patients on ward’s waiting for aged care bed or available nursing service go home with.
Patients coming to A&E from aged care as families insist parent is seen by Dr even though parent had clearly documented wishes not to go to hospital.
There are enough qualified Drs and nurses but they are not doctoring or nursing as it is too hard.
System here is broken as well. But not to the extent that the NHS is.
I hope your DM improves

Always blame the tories and demand a general election; such a trite answer.

In Scotland the SNP run the NHS; they are much worse off than England.

Same in Wales; run by Labour-Keir Starmer wants England to be run the same way. They currently have a 4 year wait for hip replacement.

The problems with the NHS are many decades in the making. Aging population, trusts being run badly, resources being wasted, personnel being treated like shit.

The NHS needs a major overhaul; not just more money chucked at it. And where is that money going to come from anyway? It’s fucked.

People have short memories I worked for the NHS throughout the last Labour government they may have invested money in the NHS ,but it never went to the right places ie direct patient care ,more and more tiers of management were invented ,lots of money wasted on shiny new initiatives
But actual patient care was just as bad
And I was redeployed twice in 12 months between 2005 and 2006 due to cuts.

Im a newly qualified nurse working in one of the top 5 biggest ED's in the country. Im currently doing a research project for an MSc on overcrowding in acute departments. The most interesting statistic i have found is in 2012/13 21,738,637 patients visited ED, of those, 170 remained on the ED for more than 12 hours after a decision to admit was made. In 2022/23 25,348,842 visited the ED, of those, 410,092 remained in the department for longer that 12 hours after the decision to admit was made. The patients staying in the department obviously has a massive impact on waiting times for those who wont be admitted but still require bed spaces to be seen, this then creates a situation where none clinical areas such as corridors have to be utilised as trolley spaces, and whilst there are hundreds of reasons why none clinical area care is dangerous to patients an staff alike, trusts have no choice but to use these spaces to meet demands. When i then looked into the biggest reason that people were staying on the department not moving to wards, its because ward bed spaces are being held up by social care. It's not just the increase in admissions, its also the increase in length of stay that is causing the issues.

We need a social care reform. In order to fix the NHS in terms of acute/impatient care, we need to address the biggest barrier. Primary care is a whole different problem, but the current state of ED's and inpatient care can only be resolved if we look at social care reforms. Closing the old cottage hospitals that gave care to patients awaiting community care or social care needs is one of the biggest issues in hospitals now. And whilst i understand theres also staffing problems, theres way round this too. Untrained HCA's could provide most of the care required. Nurse managed wards, with more HCA staff on the floor can work. But they have to make these roles attractive. Not pay HCA's basically minimum wage for a start, offer progression via apprentice routes and pay for the degree level training. Nursing has changed, what nurses do now is the same as what junior dr's used to do, so it being a professional degree is the right path, but that we have to make that path appealing to people, and worth doing. But doing so, reopening cottage hospitals, reforming social care so its easier to access an better funded would help ease some pressures in hospitals.

I mean the money is going up already. See this post

We’ll keep struggling even as more goes in

I think the next GE has a lot to do with the most recent deterioration. The tories know they will lose and are now trying to make as much of a mess of the public sector as they can. Labour can’t possibly come back from it in a term and will get blamed and voted out. I think it’s sad that the NHS has become such a political pawn.

*A large number of GP appointments are wasted by people who are entitled to free prescriptions - they don't want to see a GP for their issue, they need something which can be bought over the counter, but can get it free if a GP gives them a script.

I get free prescriptions. Our surgery has a policy of not providing prescriptions for meds which can be bought cheaply over the counter.*

When a labour were last I. Power the NHS was considered one of the best health care systems in the world, so 'poofff!', no - bit over time? It'll definitely improve.
You seem a little
Ignorant though - the NHS has rather fewer managers than other organisations (see photo) and GPs are seeing more patients than ever per GP - we do have a shortage of GPS though... What's your evidence for shirker?

It’s awful 😢 My daughter broke her arm in the summer and whilst walking around our lovely, small, local hospital for X-rays etc we passed so many trollies of poor elderly people, clearly in urgent need of help, waiting for triage etc, just queueing up in the corridors. Will never forget that, and that was a warm weekday in May!

Such a contrast with our GPs, who in the 10 years we’ve been with them have always managed to see us if we’ve been worried about the children within an hour or so. Amazing, I don’t know how they do it (and it’s not the same for adults!). We’ve since moved a few miles down the road but will never leave this GP practice as they are a precious gem!