What do humans bring to the table?

[GreyCarpet]

Just a musing. Would be interesred ro hear others thoughts. What am I missing?

I was thinking this morning about a man I met a few years ago who was brought up in a small village near Chernobyl. He had been back to visit with his wife the previous year. The village had obviously been evacuated after the disaster in 1986 and the photos he showed me were really eerie. Abandoned houses with picnic tables set up outside almost untouched by the passing of time without human interference with one exception. Nature had returned and was thriving. The area was filled with lush green plants. Animals had returned.

Anyway, it just got me thinking about what humans actually bring to the table.

We know that every other creature interacts and operates within a delicate ecosystem. They manage and control their own populations when left to their own devices, land is fertile and plants grow etc

What do we bring to the table? As a species, everything we do is for our own benefit. The world would thrive without us here.

Why do we assume such authority when, we deliver so little?

Poetry, music, art, antibiotics....

Given that this is Mumsnet, and I presume a significant number of posters will have children, why did you choose to add to the presence of the terrible species that is man?

@AllAboutMargot

Me too Margot. I was honestly beginning to think I was the only one.

Again, for our own benefit. Not for the planet. The thread isn't about what humans have added to their own quality of life, it's about what humans have done for the advantage of the planet. The answer to that is nothing.

Op watch 'a life on our planet' on Netflix I think which confirms this view

@VeniVidiWeeWee

That's a very valid question. I have one child who is now in his 40's. I was very young when I became pregnant and didn't know what to do. With an older, wiser head I would not have had any. My son has no children and doesn't intend to.

Humans are inherently programmed to reproduce, as are all species.
There will be some people today who will override the basic urge to procreate, and decide against having children, given the state of the world.

I don't like this viewpoint that we're just a stain on the earth and earth would be "better without us". Without us there's nobody to notice anything about the planet or whether anything is good or bad. The earth is a rock, nothing is better or worse for it. Same for plants and other non-conscious life. Animals are conscious, but individual animals will all suffer and die regardless of whether humans are around. We don't make their lives better or worse. Animals don't notice or understand that their species is going extinct. And all species will go extinct eventually anyway. The only reason extinction is viewed as bad is because we're around to notice it and think that it's bad. Nothing else on earth cares. For that reason I think humans are pretty special. We're the only ones even capable of having this conversation.

Animals are conscious, but individual animals will all suffer and die regardless of whether humans are around. We don't make their lives better or worse

We absolutely do make their lives worse. Think of battery hens, and animals kept in cages.

Yeah that's one way in which we cause suffering. What if we ended factory farming then? Would that render us no longer a blight on the earth?

I'm fairly certain that humanity has been directly responsible for the extinction and near extinction of quite a few species so I cannot agree that we "care".

If we cared we wouldn't deliberately destroy the habitats of other species for our own needless greed.

These are all very good but they are for our own benefit, they don't give anything to the planet.

What do animals choose to do that doesn't benefit them?

Well SOME people care then, doesn't change my argument.

I’m a geologist and have thought about this a lot over the years. Our time here on earth is a blink in the eye compared to other past species. The fossil record is full of other creatures who were here for far longer but aren’t now because of mass extinction. The same will happen to us, the difference is that humans are ‘clever’ and we have had more of an influence on our fellow species/planet than in the past.

Something will finish humans. Volcanic activity, meteoroid, nuclear war. The planet will survive until our sun explodes and consumes us which it is programmed to do and nothing will stop it. Boom, the end.

Good question

I find these mn threads typically go to the offing the human species hyperbole

I’m happy to have had dc so don’t fit the we’re all terrible message

Given that this is Mumsnet, and I presume a significant number of posters will have children, why did you choose to add to the presence of the terrible species that is man?

Quite. Obviously there are some MNers who have remained child-free for environmental reasons, but presumably the others who are keen to point out that humans are a blight on the planet were either incapable of resisting their urge to procreate, or conveniently only decided after having children themselves that other people shouldn't.

@willywallaby

"We don't make their lives better or worse"

Are you serious? The human race, since it came into existence, is responsible for most extinctions. Creatures are suffering excruciating deaths in the seas and rivers and on land and in the astmosphere because of the gazillion tons of noxious and indestructable pollutants (plastic, radio active material, disposal nappies, industrial waste the list is endless).

Vast swathes of Earth are being deforested, destroying and displacing the natural habitats of thousands of species who will starve to death as a result. The millions of trees themselves will no longer breath essential oxygen into the atmosphere. Bees are an endangered species because of pesticides. The ecosystem is close to collapse. No other species is capable of such destruction. Not even remotely capable. Well, at least we can pat ourselves on the back for being "so special" and can have a conversation about our systematic destruction of the planet and everything else we share it with. What a comfort.

We haven't brought anything to the table and never will . We are only here because there is nothing more powerful to stop us !

No of course not. That was just one example.
There are lots of other ways in which we are destroying our habitat ( I think you know this).

Every animal dies in some horrible way or another. Prey animals get eaten alive etc. Every species goes extinct at some point, they go extinct now because of us or in the future for another reason, and nobody/nothing other than humans notices or cares. The alive ones are alive and the dead ones are dead! I mean just to take your bees example, they have extremely short lifespans anyway, they wouldn't notice themselves if they were dying out! Who cares about bees except humans?

@willywallaby

Are you a child?

Art, music, literature, love, friendship. They’re just a few things off the top of my tired head. We are unique amongst all the species that have walked the Earth - we’ve done a lot of good and a lot of bad. To paraphrase a famous man - it’s isn’t about what humankind can do for you, but what can you do for humankind? There is plenty good out there done by some very talented, thoughtful and caring people. Not everyone is selfish and does bad things. The trouble is mass media, social media and all the other facets of the ‘age of information’ tell us the negative because that’s what gets the most clicks. Use what separates you from the other animals - your brain - and figure out what you can do to make the world better, then go seek it out. It’s a lot better for you than wallowing in a vicious cycle.

Evolution won’t stop. In a few billion years we humans will be extinct and another species will be here.
No use thinking that evolution has reached its peak.

I think factory farming was a good example, we bring animals into the world who wouldn't otherwise be here and they suffer, so a greater total of suffering as a result. Destroying habitats doesn't increase the amount of animal suffering overall. They'd go extinct anyway. In fact if they go extinct quicker then fewer of them are around to suffer the normal things animals suffer, like being predated.
I'm not saying animals aren't important, I think nature and the ecosystem etc is really important. I'm a really environmentally conscious person and I think it's awful when species go extinct due to our actions. But I recognise that the animals and indeed the planet don't observe themselves and saving them is not for their own sake, but rather because when the ecosystem doesn't function normally it makes our lives worse and when species go extinct it makes us sad.

No. Are you a misanthrope?