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Original poster

Not in AIBU but...

57 replies

vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 21:52

AIBU to think that hospital consultants deciding that patients needing procedures should have to undergo them first, so they have an understanding of what patients experience when they have them?
I'm thinking here of things like colonoscopy / flexible sigmoidoscopy, nerve root injections... all of the stuff that doesn't involve major operations or things being removed.
I'm just pondering this evening, due to some of my experiences and wondered if others thought it might make those carrying out procedures a bit more understanding and mindful of their patients.
I know I may well be shot down for the practicalities of doing this, but as a general idea, what do other posters think?

OP posts:
HappyMavis · 27/10/2023 22:54

vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:45

@VeridicalVagabond, do you care to expand on my 'faux dramatics'? To be more direct, are you calling me a liar?

Now just one moment! It was ME that said that, not the truthful vagabond!

Original poster
vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:54

@Ssme92, my question was pretty theoretical. I did say 'beside the practicalities'. What I'm driving at is the laissez faire attitude I have come across recently in the NHS.
I could go on to name several more times I have been shown indifference when I am experiencing genuine problems, but as they don't fit into the criteria, they are brushed aside.

OP posts:
Original poster
vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:55

My apologies, @VeridicalVagabond. @HappyMavis, care to expand?

OP posts:
Aldicrispsareshit · 27/10/2023 22:55

vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:50

And @Aldicrispsareshit, I asked about sedation and was briskly told it wasn't offered. I insisted for the second one, and still needed some fentanyl - it was worlds better than the first experience.

With the greatest kindness I think you may want to begin to explore some psychological support for pain management.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/10/2023 22:56

Maybe the OP would like a means - let's call it a neural link - whereby hcps could sense the pain of their patients? Obviously (those damned practicalities!) it'd have to be attenuated so that it didn't make the job impossible if they hurt the patient unavoidably or accidentally.

HappyMavis · 27/10/2023 22:56

vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:55

My apologies, @VeridicalVagabond. @HappyMavis, care to expand?

No worries, apology accepted.

Original poster
vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:58

@Aldicrispsareshit, I find that insulting. Are you saying that fibromyalgia is a psychiatric condition? I've had plenty of counselling due to having to take eight months plus off work and worrying that I would never be able to work again.
Or, are you suggesting that there is some magic cure to my nervous system being sensitive? I'd love to know.

OP posts:
assignedmeowth · 27/10/2023 22:59

I kind of get what you're saying, but people have massively different pain thresholds.

I had my gallbladder removed a couple years ago and found it really straightforward, pain for about a week or so, then was fine.

My friend had hers recently and was really cross that id told her I'd found it not too bad, she said the post op pain was worse than childbirth and found she couldn't get out of bed for 3 weeks.

I was having a similar discussion with my tattooist a while ago while she was doing my shin. She then had hers done a month later and said she didn't know how I wasn't in floods of tears and had had to stop her own tattooist to finish it another day 😂

Aldicrispsareshit · 27/10/2023 23:01

vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:58

@Aldicrispsareshit, I find that insulting. Are you saying that fibromyalgia is a psychiatric condition? I've had plenty of counselling due to having to take eight months plus off work and worrying that I would never be able to work again.
Or, are you suggesting that there is some magic cure to my nervous system being sensitive? I'd love to know.

I'm saying there are strong links between psycholocal wellbeing and pain management. You can google to find a whole host of studies to support this.

Original poster
vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 23:04

@assignedmeowth, thank you for entering into a sensible discussion. As I've said to PP, perception and other factors come into play with pain (and other things?)
I had a couple of tattoos recently (I've had small ones before) and they really hurt, especially the parts down close to my ankle bone- which I felt in the top of my foot! I got them for sentimental reasons though, and was able to get them done in one session with a lot of deep breathing and distracting myself

OP posts:
Original poster
vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 23:05

@Aldicrispsareshit 👍🏻

OP posts:
Ankerdam · 27/10/2023 23:10

vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 22:54

@Ssme92, my question was pretty theoretical. I did say 'beside the practicalities'. What I'm driving at is the laissez faire attitude I have come across recently in the NHS.
I could go on to name several more times I have been shown indifference when I am experiencing genuine problems, but as they don't fit into the criteria, they are brushed aside.

Playing devil's advocate here OP, have you worked in a patient facing role for any significant time in recent years? You anticipate if HCPs underwent medical procedures themselves then they may be more understanding - perhaps it would take for you to work in the NHS to understand why some HCPs are burnt out and lacking the compassion they once showed. Everyone has their own cross to bear, and unfortunately the frustration is almost always misdirected at the wrong target.

Original poster
vipersnest1 · 27/10/2023 23:13

@Ankerdam, I work in a public service role myself which is massively undervalued, so no. My DSis is a nurse, so I don't think I'm under any illusions as to what the day to day is for most HCPs.

OP posts:
marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 27/10/2023 23:22

Utterly stupid suggestion.

madamepopov · 27/10/2023 23:38

@VeridicalVagabond Is that an actual thing, ginger hair being linked to anaesthetic resistance? I always need more local anaesthetic. I've never been refused it but some dentists have acted incredibly surprised that I can in fact feel them poking me!

I did once have stitches without any anaesthetic at all thanks to a clearly mad midwife. That wasn't fun, I can kind of see where the op is coming from with that one

Kinneddar · 27/10/2023 23:44

Surely though this idea could backfire big time for patients. You put a consultant through a procedure & they have a high pain threshold they're potentially going to be even less sympathetic to a patient who says it's painful

What's painful for one person might be merely uncomfortable to another

WeighDownOnMe · 27/10/2023 23:52

You think healthy people should undergo unnecessary medical procedures due to their career choice?

How that would help NHS resources? They'd spend weeks each year carrying our unnecessary work on healthy bodies while waiting lists grow longer.

And as for trying to entice people into the profession...

UsingChangeofName · 27/10/2023 23:54

Ok, it that's your opinion, it is.

Yes, it is. Same as so many other posters on this thread.

VeridicalVagabond · 28/10/2023 08:48

madamepopov · 27/10/2023 23:38

@VeridicalVagabond Is that an actual thing, ginger hair being linked to anaesthetic resistance? I always need more local anaesthetic. I've never been refused it but some dentists have acted incredibly surprised that I can in fact feel them poking me!

I did once have stitches without any anaesthetic at all thanks to a clearly mad midwife. That wasn't fun, I can kind of see where the op is coming from with that one

It is, there's studies that show we need up to 20% more anaesthetic or sedation for it to have the same effect as non-ginger people! We're also more sensitive to opioids and usually need lower dosages, and there's also evidence we have a higher pain tolerance than average for skin-level pain (like minor cuts, injections etc).

Quite a few clinicians aren't aware of it either, I've had to show dentists the studies before when they've not believed I can still feel them digging around in my jaw!

GoodToBeHome · 28/10/2023 09:37

It's clearly an utterly mad suggestion OP.
You have had some awful experiences however your suggestion wouldn't work.
I have a ridiculously high pain threshold, if someone practiced a procedure on me and I rated it 1/10 for pain and you were their first patient after me they would think you were being completely dramatic wouldn't they?
Pain is subjective, my uncomfortable could be your agony.

madamepopov · 28/10/2023 22:23

This is fascinating, thank you for responding. I'm going to have to read a bit more about this. I had no idea of the link!

junbean · 28/10/2023 23:15

I recently read an article about a female doctor who always told her patients that IUD insertion would feel "crampy", until she got one herself and felt horrendous pain. She felt so bad. I see your point but it is impractical.

PetsAreBetter · 28/10/2023 23:36

I understand your point, however I don't think anyone should undergo a procedure without good cause. No procedure is risk free. It's silly to take that risk without a real need.

Doctors are human beings with bodies so will have had their own medical experiences. There are usually reasons they have an interest in a particular specialty too. Like maybe themselves or a family member have had a particular problem.

Original poster
vipersnest1 · 28/10/2023 23:53

I'm feeling less angry about it tonight.
I have taken other's views on board, but the comments saying that pain is subjective also applies to the perception of pain in others, surely?
I can't scream - my voice can't do it, if I'm in terrible pain I tend to freeze. I can't even cry. All of these things would lead someone to think I wasn't in as much pain as I was, unless they bothered to ask me. Most of the time, HCPs don't.
I know I'm now widening the point of discussion, but the drive of my post is still the same - many HCPs have no idea of the level of pain patients might be experiencing, or are likely to experience (see also my experience of tonsillectomy as an adult when they tried to discharge me home with only paracetamol and ibuprofen as the only painkillers - I asked for more, so was given codeine. which I couldn't even swallow when the pain was at its worst, or the time when after having glue ear as an adult, a doctor insisted he could remove the remaining grommet stuck to my eardrum with forceps - the nurse in attendance kept asking him if he would like to try suction, which he only did after the fifth attempt - as a result of his attempts he tore a hole in my eardrum which luckily healed).
I could go on.
Do I think I'm unlucky? Maybe. Do I think I'm alone in experiencing a poor attitude to pain in patients? No.

OP posts:
PetsAreBetter · 28/10/2023 23:59

The thing is, you are making a lot of assumptions about the doctor's motivations and personal experiences. I work in a profession where I've had a lot of clients going through really difficult stuff. They make a lot of assumptions about me and how perfect my life is. They have no idea that I have been through more than many of them, or more than many people are expected to endure in a life time. Your doctors have personal lives and families. You never know what they have been through and experienced. It's also a given that sometimes you can't have the pain meds you want for safety reasons, or that there is going to be pain and discomfort during a procedure that is ultimately going to help us. I suggest you discuss your concerns about pain with any doctor you are going to have a procedure with so they have an understanding of how you'd like things handled.

I once had a major medical procedure where I was crying out for pain meds. I'd been given paracetamol. I asked if there was anything else and was denied because it wasn't safe. It was horrible at the time but ultimately the right thing and I appreciate that they had put my overall well being first.