Y5 dd in tears every day - is this usual?

[SunflowerBaby]

Dd is almost 10, Y5 at school, and is on the assessment pathway for autism but has low support needs. She isn't obviously autistic unless you know her really well, so it's blurring the lines between what is 'normal' Y5 girl behaviour and what might potentially her having social difficulties due to autism.

She's always loved school, great academically and very popular with lots of friends, no problems at all right the way up until the summer. She started Y5 in September and has a teacher who is brand new to the school and this is his first ever class teacher job. She hasn't warmed to him at all, which isn't helped by the fact she loved her teacher last year so much. I've been telling her to give him a chance to settle in and things might improve.

The problem we're having is that she's coming home almost every day in tears because of different things that have been happening. Mainly friendship issues and there's seems to be a different fall-out every day. It's usually other people falling out and she somehow gets involved, or her friends aren't including her and playing with other people, or she's sitting alone at lunch and no one wants to be her partner in PE. She doesn't feel supported by her teacher at all, who often speaks to the others involved and tells her it's all been a misunderstanding when she's upset. She's worried about school all the time now and says she hates it, which is the complete opposite of our school experience from reception to y4. She came home today again in tears and said she feels like she's never good enough for anyone

I know that Y5 onwards is when friend dynamics start to change and fall-outs happen, but it's like a switch has been flipped and it's gone from 0-100 in the space of one summer.

Is this completely normal for this age group, or does it sound like there may be other issues at play here? DH wants to contact the school but I'm unsure as I don't know if it's just usual behaviour or if she's in need of more support.

Can anyone help?

It sounds like she has hit the age where the social cues become more sophisticated and your DD is struggling. I know from my youngest DS (nearly 10_ - there is plenty of "drama" with the girls this year as they have "grown up" a lot. Into older interests, friendships changed a lot etc. It could also potentially be hormones influencing her moods?

I don't think it is typical for a child of 10 to be crying and upset so much. She needs support - is the teacher aware of your considering ND pathway assessment? Has the school any supports they can offer outside of an ECHP?

Thanks for your reply. I'm trying to figure out if it's mostly her struggling with the social cues etc. and interpreting things differently which could be causing so much upset. This is something she has had issues with in the past but it's never been a huge problem, but I agree that maybe it's becoming more complicated now and more difficult for her. It's hard to judge!

We had a meeting with the SENCO a few weeks ago who is making a referral for assessment (I know it's going to be a LONG wait so saving for a private assessment but it's financially out of reach at the moment). and the class teacher is also aware. She's been going to a group once a week at school for neurodiverse children to help build resilience, cope with anxiety etc. but she doesn't tell me much about it (as much as I ask!).

Do you think it would be worth contacting the school to say she's struggling?

My daughter is the same age and is similar, looking at asc diagnosis etc.

However she comes out of school happy, but cries in the evening saying things like 'nobody really likes me, they are my friends because they feel sorry for me' 'why am I weird' etc etc

I have spoken to school and they are going to help support her while I keep on letting her know how great she is, at home.

It's a really difficult time for them. My heart breaks for them!

Oh bless her. My dd says similar things, she feels like she's weird, doesn't fit in and she can't relate to anyone. It makes me so sad because she's so sweet, interesting and funny. She does have a lot of friends and has always been well-liked so I don't know if she's just perceiving it to be this way or if her friendships genuinely have changed.

I would give the teacher a heads up how upset your DD is and what she has been saying. He can keep an eye on friendship groups

I'd have a word with the teacher and try and find out a bit more. Another factor, she's at an age where hormones might be trying to kick in - DD had ups and downs with tears on the approach to starting periods.

It's related to neurodivergency. Look up rejection sensitivity disphoria. It's mainly linked to adhd, but it can be a part of autism too.

Won't the teacher help? We had exactly the same problem and spoke to the teacher and head teacher. They helped by

1. moving DS next to one boy who he liked
2. allowed DS to spend time with 3 other children who had similar hobbies / interests to help form a friendship
3. ensure DS isn't alone at play time or lunch time
4. Help DS with PE by giving him a little extra. So he skips reading (he's advanced) and does extra PE with year 4. He loves it and it's helped his skills, social skills, confidence and he's made new friends!
5. allowing DS to pass notes to teacher or speak to her quietly if he's anxious / worried

He's also being assessed for autism.

This is helpful, thank you for sharing your experience. The senco agreed to some adjustments a few weeks ago when I spoke to her. There's an area she can go to when she's feeling overwhelmed at break time to calm down, and she's allowed some blue tac to fiddle with in class as it helps relieve stress. I wasn't sure what else to ask for adjustment-wise to help!

@SunflowerBaby you're welcome. DS is Year 5 too. It's a tricky year!!

I recommend stimming by squishing bean bags (you can get special small ones off Etsy in really cute patterns. She could choose!)

Does a weighted blanket help?

I hope you find a solution soon.

Our head teacher said school is the most unnatural thing for children. When would children "naturally" end up in a small room with 29 more noisy children? It's tough!

I've had poor experiences with "pastoral" people in schools - but I'm sure there's some great ones around. Ours pushed her own diagnosis onto DS and wasn't helpful at all! Basically thought she was the boss of the school and said "this school wouldnt be a school without me!" But she wasn't even qualified in anything remotely linked to children......it was nuts.

But if you have one and they're good then use them for support as well as the teachers & Headteacher 😊

Year 5 always seems to be when friendships issues really kick in and it all falls apart. It sounds as though she is really struggling. It would be worth speaking to the teacher to work together to find a way forward.

Yes definitely call the school and ask for a meeting with the teacher. We got a few adjustments - a term of forest school sessions, lunch club with similar children, sessions with a TA on emotional regulation. It helped to tune the teacher in to where they were struggling, as they were one of the quieter ones in the class. Don't let it drag on.

Thanks everyone for the advice, it's really appreciated. The SENCO was helpful when we met her, so I will copy her into my email and mention dd is struggling again.

Interesting, I was at school today about my Y5 kid. My DS says that nobody plays games in the playground anymore and the transition from rules-based games to more complex and open ended 'hanging out' is causing him a lot of stress. The teacher completed an ASD questionnaire today but he's nowhere near the threshold but keeping an eye since DH has autism and it's obviously heritable.

Some ND traits here (her brother has formal diagnosis of ADHD) but had a similar experience in Y5 last year. I've largely put it down to a combination of hormones (raging), friendship groups cementing/changing, and a not-particularly-supportive teaching team.
But mainly hormones!!!!

No it’s not normal. I’m really sorry.

i read a quote recently that said “high functioning autism just means it’s easier for other people to deal with “

she may have ‘low needs’ at school in terms of behaviour but she’s clearly having a lot of internal difficulties and school should be nudged to help.

I could relate to a lot of this!

Does she do anything outside school? DD joined a music theatre group around this age and it's really helped her. It's also good to have a drama outlet if you feel strong emotions.

My daughter isnyear 6, also on the path to an ASD diagnosis and finding the same issues. I keep encouraging her to see the best in herself and hoping like hell that she will fit in better at high school.

It sounds like she is at the age where friendship issues often come up plus she has social difficulties. I would also consider how you react to these yourself and how you react to the tears. If you seem over concerned then you risk getting caught up in the drama and reinforcing the idea that these very normal ups and downs are a problem. I would give her time to talk about them. Be neutral and reassuring.
E.g. I had no one to sit with at lunch. X was talking with Y and they are leaving me out.
That sounds tricky. I can understand that felt upsetting at the time. It may be that they didn't realise you felt that way. Who else did you see in the lunch hall today? Oh, why not sit on their table next time?
Shall we do (insert something distracting here)?

I say this because girls friendships at this age are constantly changing and there is quite a bit of drama and unhappiness. You need to steer her through it being supportive but realistic about what has happened. The other girls are also finding their way and it is infinitely better if you don't immediately suggest everything can be sorted by phoning the school. It won't be. The teacher sounds like they are trying to help by explaining other people's perspective and being neutral about 'blame'. Often there are several points of view.

This is tough isn't it? For what it's worth I think this is a tricky stage for most girls. DNiece is neurotypical and generally pretty mature/high-achieving for her age, but not particularly "cool" and not a girly girl - she really struggled with friendships in the first term of Y5. It's hard to find that balance between supporting them/validating their feelings, and encouraging resilience.

This book was helpful for DN - if DD enjoys reading, it might be useful for her as well:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-Girls-Guide-Friendship-Popularity/dp/1609582233

My ASD daughter went through very similar in Y3 and 4, friendship groups forming, breaking and reforming, getting upset on behalf of others etc.

Her class teacher even went so far as to form a lunchtime club where small groups of friends could eat lunch in the classroom and she could try and help them mend friendships.

Thanks for this. This is actually the approach I've already been taking so far as I felt it was sensible, but she's finding it harder and harder at the minute. I wanted to wait until parents evening at the end of November to see what her teacher thinks about it, but she's struggled so much the past two weeks that I could do with speaking to someone at school about it. It's really difficult to judge.

Funnily enough she does go to musical theatre class and loves it. I have been trying to broaden her friend group a bit so it's not just people at school. She also has a friend who lives a few doors up that she gets on swimmingly with (who also happens to be autistic). She also does guitar and drum lessons but they are 1-1 so not very social.

Thank you, I'll order that for her!

I'm hoping it will settle down but I'm worried this is it now until the end of her teenage years

My dd struggled hugely on Y5. But it was all teacher related. She was scared as the teacher shouted a lot, which tipped up her sensory issues.

She was fine in y6, but struggled with certain shouty teachers at secondary. She crashed out of y12 with ASD burnout in Spril of this year.

If l had my time again, l’d put her in soecial school. She appears high functioning but noise and overwhelm proved too much for her.