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Original poster

He's not rude, he has ASC

69 replies

Heisntrude · 16/10/2023 07:00

Would you expect a parent to say that their child has ASC if you tried to engage with him but got nothing back?

My son is 4 and completely non verbal. He has ASC with severe learning delay and severe speech and language communication issues too.

I think, but I'm not sure, that it is clear he is ND. But sometimes adults and other children try to engage with him. He will just carry on being in his own world. He doesn't really notice. I do explain if I feel it is needed. But honestly it gets harder having to say that he is non verbal and has ASC. I don't know why but it just is. I don't want him to wear a lanyard as he would just take it off.

I guess my worry is people think he is rude in not responding to them. Or if he starts crying because he is not allowed to do something he is being a brat. He isn't. He just doesn't understand that certain things aren't his so he might want to play with something that isn't his. Obviously I stop him and apologise and explain. But it just feels like an excuse for poor behaviour, however, it is a genuine reason.

He is also more interested in dogs than people. Which can bring a whole new range of issues and again I feel I need to explain but often they don't want to hear it. It really gets me down. My son is not purposefully trying to upset anyone or anything. He doesn't touch the dogs just likes to see them and laughs as they are funny to him. It's a minefield to know what to do.

OP posts:
scarecrow22 · 16/10/2023 09:03

OP, firstly a hand in friendship. I understand a bit of what you are going through and it's painful.

As 'the other adult', I would always want an honest explanation, e.g. he finds social situations difficult, he's non verbal (at the moment?)..?

Surely, most adults will understand the cues, and want to be able to adapt to the situation to put your son and you at ease.

I tend to the (simplified) honesty is best. It seldom makes things worse! X

Sillymummies123 · 16/10/2023 09:07

I feel like replacing the D with C is arbitrary. I get why - I do - it just feels like potato, potahto. Also- we don't want to minimalise the disordered lives that many with autism - some in indefinite care due to an inability to function - experience. And while, to a degree, you can put difficulties in the context of the social model of disability- some things, like "meltdown due to the feeling of air on my skin or feel of my own heartbeat" just is a sensory disorder that needs lots of support.

I get that's not the point of the post, but all or nothing disability positivity (at the cost of those who actually struggle) is a pet peeve.

Needmorelego · 16/10/2023 09:07

@octodrive my (autistic) daughter once had a meltdown in a charity shop and my mum had to pick her up kicking and screaming to take her outside so I could look at the books. I probably looked a bit fed up, stressed and tired but the assistant in the shop said to me something along the lines of "don't worry about it - my grandson has ADHD too - it's so hard I know".
So yes - "wrong" diagnosis but to me she was being "kind" actually.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

4 year olds Families
LaGiaconda · 16/10/2023 09:08

My daughter tells people in situations where my grandson's behaviour is obviously unusual that he has autism. It a) helps them to understand why he is not engaging/is distressed by something and b) it helps to spread awareness.

I really think that euphemisms like 'he's a little bit sensitive' don't help.

Neurodivergence is nothing to be ashamed of. It's a difference, that's all.

jlpth · 16/10/2023 09:10

You could just cover it with: he has special needs

Lots of people don't understand so I'd keep it vague

octodrive · 16/10/2023 09:11

Needmorelego · 16/10/2023 09:07

@octodrive my (autistic) daughter once had a meltdown in a charity shop and my mum had to pick her up kicking and screaming to take her outside so I could look at the books. I probably looked a bit fed up, stressed and tired but the assistant in the shop said to me something along the lines of "don't worry about it - my grandson has ADHD too - it's so hard I know".
So yes - "wrong" diagnosis but to me she was being "kind" actually.

Right, but that's not the same as the example I commented on.

Im not that's black and white and I do see how it can be said as an understanding but I don't think 'oh I wondered which one he had' is an appropriate thing to say to a struggling parent in front of their child.

I also don't agree with constantly explaining a child's behaviour to random people, my kids are who they are and I don't want them growing up thinking they need to excuse themselves

bryceQ · 16/10/2023 09:19

I mean this kindly but you need to try and stop worrying and being concerned what strangers think. if your son wants to jump up and down on the spot, he isn't causing anyone harm, this isn't naughty behaviour, it's fine for him to do this.

if cashiers at the checkout, try to speak to him, just smile at them, and say, thank you, don't engage further.

You don't owe explanations

mondaytosunday · 16/10/2023 09:20

My niece is non verbal. She was also small for her age. She was (and is) very smiley and cute and lots of people would try and chat to her. My sister, would just say 'oh she's very shy' and that would be accepted. When she got to 6 and above I think she was less likely to be spoken to but could say hi and a couple more things like 'howareyou' a bit mushed up. That seemed to be enough.
I think Autism and other issues are much more widely known about now, and people tend to 'get' that she's not going to respond as they might expect. Occasionally my sister does have to explain. It's not awkward - she's beyond feeling that. And my niece is oblivious to it. What's worse is the people who do know and will literally cross the street to avoid them.

Needmorelego · 16/10/2023 09:20

@octodrive I would have interpreted "which one does he have" not as rude but showing an understanding. Slightly clumsy way of saying it - but not rude to me.
There are so many different "labels" (I mean just look on here with the ASC vs ASD) and people don't always mean it in a bad way to ask "which one". Yes it's actually none of their business but also sometimes having a friendly and understanding conversation with someone can make the day better. There's also times you will want to say "none of your beeswax - mind your f-ing business".
Obviously I am not the OP and I wasn't there but from what she has said I would say that moment was a "kind" moment.
Parents of autistic children need that once in a while.

herewegoagaiin · 16/10/2023 09:25

Would he wear/would you be happy for him to wear a sunflower lanyard? That's exactly what they were supposed to be for - showing that someone had a hidden disability.

octodrive · 16/10/2023 09:27

@Needmorelego

Parents of autistic children need that once in a while.

Some parents, not all.

Needmorelego · 16/10/2023 09:31

@octodrive actually yes I agree...."some" not "all".
I personally am in the "some" group.
If you aren't then that's you and I respect that 🙂

ShellySarah · 16/10/2023 09:32

I've had parents say that to me before. My sisters child (when I took her out) was trying to talk to another child in a queue the parents said straight up she's autistic.

I'd hope people were understanding on being told that.

LaGiaconda · 16/10/2023 09:36

Sometimes it really does help to be told.

I had one job where part of the work was engaging with children. I'd make eye contact, smile - use a cheerful voice when greeting them - fairly standard ways of establishing a connection, demonstrating friendliness etc.

One child flinched/shied away as if I had shouted/intruded on his space.

His grandparent said, 'He has autism.'

I made a mental note, so that the next time the child came in I wouldn't attempt to engage in ways that the child found overwhelming.

Sueveneers · 16/10/2023 09:38

Heisntrude · 16/10/2023 07:50

@Needmorelego it stands for Condition. They changed it from ASD which I think was disorder? Even expressing the diagnosis can be difficult as I don't want to offend anyone. He is very much in his own world. I say he is autistic.

I guess as he gets older I think people expect more of him. Whereas he is probably around the age of a 12 month old. He still cannot point.

He doesn't get away with bad behaviour. He gets told off and removed. He understands no and my stern voice but he might not understand why.

Edited

It's still ASD. Nowhere is anyone using the term 'ASC'. I've only seen it used on here by around two people.

Mummyoflittledragon · 16/10/2023 09:41

octodrive · 16/10/2023 09:11

Right, but that's not the same as the example I commented on.

Im not that's black and white and I do see how it can be said as an understanding but I don't think 'oh I wondered which one he had' is an appropriate thing to say to a struggling parent in front of their child.

I also don't agree with constantly explaining a child's behaviour to random people, my kids are who they are and I don't want them growing up thinking they need to excuse themselves

Show quote history

It sounds as though she was trying to connect with op and her ds. I think you’re seeing it as her trying to put him in a box, whereas it sounds as though it was the opposite and she was trying to see how better she could interact with him.

Thing is, the average person knows very little about additional needs and they can inadvertently offend when they are trying to be kind. I don’t think people should be admonished for this, neither do I think it appropriate to chide a check out assistant on minimum wage, who is less likely to have been able to take advantage of the many educational experiences the average mumsnetter has.

Original poster
Heisntrude · 16/10/2023 09:48

@Sueveneers ASC has been used by the professionals assessing him for autism and his EHCP. This is the NHS and County Council Educational Psychologist. I honestly thought it had changed as that is what is written on the paperwork 🤷

I personally don't care. But I know others do because of the negative connotations that Disorder may have over Condition. It doesn't change the fact that my son is Autistic.

OP posts:
TigerRag · 16/10/2023 09:50

Sueveneers · 16/10/2023 09:38

It's still ASD. Nowhere is anyone using the term 'ASC'. I've only seen it used on here by around two people.

Show quote history

My diagnosis letter says ASC. That was 2012.

financialcareerstuff · 16/10/2023 09:51

OP, I'm sorry - this sounds so hard.

I don't have experience of this... but the thread has made me wonder a bit....

Can I ask, is the assumption if you say your child is non-verbal, that people should basically not try to interact? My instinct if I was told that would be to continue to interact, but just not expect a response, so the child didn't feel ignored.

Something like "he finds it stressful when strangers talk to him" would make it much clearer that the right thing to do would be to give space and not interact. It also puts the onus on them that their behaviour isn't right, rather than that there is anything wrong with your son.

Is what you are wanting that people just leave your son alone? Or are you happy for them to interact with him, but you worry they will be judgemental if your son doesn't respond as expected?

If it's the latter, then again, I might suggest just giving them a cue about how they should be, rather than labelling your son. Eg "he enjoys kind, calm interaction, but don't be surprised when he doesn't respond verbally" .... or whatever is true.

Just an idea, but please ignore if I am being stupid.

octodrive · 16/10/2023 09:54

Can I ask, is the assumption if you say your child is non-verbal, that people should basically not try to interact? My instinct if I was told that would be to continue to interact, but just not expect a response, so the child didn't feel ignored.

I would like to answer this one, if I may?

DS finds it almost painful when people talk to him. He is selective mute and wants to be ignored. He wants to be invisible. People talking to him place an expectation on him that he cannot manage.

I would say take the lead from the parent because obviously not all children are the same, but don't assume the child wants to be part of your chat. Often it's the last thing they want.

oakleaffy · 16/10/2023 09:56

The dog thing 'could' be potentially dangerous, if he rushes up to strange dogs that can't get away, They could potentially bite or snap, and children's faces are lower down- you need to protect him from doing this.

I saw a little girl rush up to a smallish puppy, eyeballing him and grabbing his face with both hands and ''squeeze/twisting''- I was horrified- but the father said ''We bought this breed as so good with children'' {because of the daughter}...the dog was still a puppy, but when dog grows older, it could easily retaliate.

NO DOG, even the so say 'safe' breeds is safe around children, especially children likely to grab and go ''eye to eye''

Please keep your son safe.

octodrive · 16/10/2023 09:57

@Mummyoflittledragon

neither do I think it appropriate to chide a check out assistant on minimum wage, who is less likely to have been able to take advantage of the many educational experiences the average mumsnetter has.

I don't know what that means. However you are being a tad judgemental by assuming all check out assistants are uneducated.

oakleaffy · 16/10/2023 09:58

octodrive · 16/10/2023 09:57

@Mummyoflittledragon

neither do I think it appropriate to chide a check out assistant on minimum wage, who is less likely to have been able to take advantage of the many educational experiences the average mumsnetter has.

I don't know what that means. However you are being a tad judgemental by assuming all check out assistants are uneducated.

Quite a few checkout assistants here are university students.

Original poster
Heisntrude · 16/10/2023 09:59

@financialcareerstuff bang on with the latter part of your post. I love when people interact with him. I love it more when he shows his personality back. I'm biased but he is adorable when excited and engaging with people. He jumps up and down and will laugh and make happy sounds. I will be more open. I didn't think about from the other person's perspective from a positive point of view.

I wouldn't want people to shy away from him or cross the road (absolutely shocking from PP @mondaytosunday).

I do worry when he doesn't respond and people will assume he is rude. At that point I'll say he is non verbal autistic. If you have a dog who will sniff him and isn't scared by his outbursts even more points. He simply loves dogs and other animals to be fair. He doesn't want to touch (or not often he did hug a goat at nursery) but likes to laugh at them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Heisntrude · 16/10/2023 10:05

@octodrive isn't it incredible how different everyone is. NT or ND we all have our different ways. You are right. It needs to be a cue from the parents.

@oakleaffy he will never touch a dog and I always make sure I'm in short running distance to my son. He doesn't run up to dogs he stands still and puts his chin on his chest and arms to his head. But I understand your point entirely. I am not a fan of dogs so naturally wary myself.

OP posts: