What constitutes under class?

[Invalidusername88]

Just reading about working class on another thread. It got me thinking about the term under class? What does this mean?

Also what class would you identify yourself as if you had to?

@Findyourneutralspace, it's descriptive. It's often used to offend, but it is the term that describes what it is. Avoiding it means ignoring those who are suffering and not having to pay to improve their lives. And it's exactly that that leads so many of them to be taken in by charlatans like Laurence Fox.

I would assume it means people who do not work through choice, as opposed to those with circumstances where they cannot work. That's just my take on it. It's an absolutely horrible term, I wouldn't use it or respect someone who does.

WTH? I'm disabled, so much so that I'm no longer able able to work. How dare you call people like me an underclass! In fact, its a disgusting term thst no-one should be using.

@toadasoda, that's not what it means. And when dealing with people who have grown up in poverty, with all the associated problems, there isn't "choice" in the same sense that more privileged people would understand it.

If your school is substandard and anyone who could possibly guide/help you is overwhelmed with people in worse situations, if you don't know anyone who has been able to get training/education and go on to a better life, if you can't even afford to pay for basics let alone think about taking the bus to a job, then choice doesn't mean much.

I think that upper/middle/lower class came first and then some of those who were branded “lower” by authorities of the day took offence. These were the ones who worked and had took no benefits, no charity and committed no crimes rebranded themselves as ‘proud working class’ to differentiate their hard working, decent selves from others in the “lower class” that they then branded as the “underclass”

A dark side of human nature is to want someone to look down on.

Well I guess I'm underclass. Don't work and rely on benefits. I was middle class but I have a SEN child with high needs and very challenging behaviour, without a school place because our country shits on SEND kids. I lost my ability to work and the stress drove my partner into a depression that lead him to check out of our relationship. So here I am. Poor scum relying on the tax payers with no intention of getting a job because I have no choice but to care for my son because no school or childcare will take him.

I’m not? That’s part of the definition of the term.

No, its original meaning didn’t have the element of choice in it really. It did have deserving poor vs undeserving poor which was more about regulating access to benefits or charity on perceived morality. Like pregnant prostitute = undeserving poor but pregnant by rape homeless teen = deserving poor.

A level Sociology 1991.

Dependent upon benefits/not working, limited opportunities for education, employment or any way out of the situation. Structurally excluded from society and portrayed as outsiders. Lowest life expectancy, larger families, poorest access to healthcare, justice, housing - outside the ABC1C2D socioeconomic groupings into E and even below that.

I always thought it applied to anyone who'se sole source of income was state benefits. If your sole source of income is wages/salary then you're working class. The clue is in the name

In sociology it used to refer to people who lacked the structure, traditions and work ethic associated with working class life. So think the dole, antisocial behaviour, petty crime, lack of literacy and functional life skills etc. It’s not a term that is used now really.

I'm a member of the underclass, here due to life events. It sucks and hope one day to climb back up to working class.

It’s not a term that is used now really.
Yeah it died at the turn of the Millenium because it’s outdated and never shook off its pejorative roots.

It is a term best reserved for rich Tory bastards who are sub-moral and therefore without class.

Or it should be. It should also be banned on MN.

No need to try and revive it.

I dislike the term and would not use it.

But I think that those who do would say it’s an attitude towards work. Being able-bodied and able to work, but choosing to be on benefits/work cash in hand etc - opting out of the social contract which says you go to work and pay your taxes as it’s the right thing to do. I don’t think it’s anything to do with being disabled or unemployed not by choice.

I would use the term underclass to describe people who have been failed by the system and are completely disenfranchised. They are the people who face real barriers to participation in society, especially the economic aspects of society. I think that is distinctly different from people who choose to not participate and deal with the consequences of those choices.

What a repulsive way to describe human beings.

Not really. You don't really change class due to life events because you still have the cultural heritage of the original class. A working class person may become extremely rich but they don't become upper class. An aristocratic can fall into poverty but will never be working class. Those changes take many generations. And that's the thing about the term underclass. It presumes generational poverty.

We need terms for people who are below "working class" on the socio-economic scale. Underclass is a horrible term, but I'd venture that we need a better one or a few. France has "marginal" but that carries the same stigma.

I'm underclass because I'm a State pensioner. My income doesn't reach the accepted lower level for a normal life in the UK. I'm not whining, I do okay-ish, but I'd quite like a word for my status in society.

Between becoming disabled and reaching retirement age, I was incredibly hard up and actually felt like underclass. Absolutely nothing was set up for people like me, hardly anything was available or possible, and I was at the level of poverty where everything's more expensive - PAYG electricity & phone, can't take advantage of offers because zero slush fund, have to buy the smaller packs of everything, and so on. I loved my cheap house but it was literally full of holes and had an earth floor under the carpet. One winter, the inside of the fridge was warmer than my kitchen.

I shoplifted a few things like shower gel and moisturiser. I only had to live like this for five years. Too many people are born into these margins, grow up in them, raise their own families there. It's by no means all about drugs & crime - it's mainly bad luck. I can fully understand, though, the draw of escaping the day-to-day of social & economic exclusion through any means at hand.

So, yeah, we need at least two more words - one for "severely restricted" and one for "excluded" 😢

I used to think this was the case, before my own headlong slide from comfortably middle class! It is true that my background gave me resources - knowledge, mainly - that helped me cope (and still do). But I had no social capital and no fallback.

It's people without stability, jobs, lack of education, high crime. As pp said complex issues that are multi generational

Exception being a white Volvo estate from 1998.

this was a proper mc marker!

The underclass is usually used to describe the chronically or permanently unemployed - people who rely solely on benefits for their income. Usually with poor education and low prospects of getting out of this poverty trap.

Underclass means underneath working class - lower than what used to be the lowest class.

I always thought it applied to anyone who'se sole source of income was state benefits.

But surely that would include pensioners who only have state pensions?

No it's not that's ridiculous that doesn't take into account you could be working and very clearly in middle or even upper class. It also doesn't take into account pensions. Working class has a socio-economic definition based on both financial and cultural capital and nothing to do with working per se.