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I live here?

206 replies

ButternutSoup · 30/09/2023 21:53

My husband and I are South African and are immigrating to the UK (with an ancestry visa as my grandmother is British). While we were researching nice places to live, we stumbled upon this funny website called ilivehere.co.uk, where people write scathing reviews of their towns/cities. It must be satire, as nearly every town is made out to be some kind of crime-infested hellhole, which can't be true.

Some of the reviews do seem to contain elements of truth, I'm sure, but which ones? I've always had a romantic notion of living in the Scottish Highlands, but the "I Live Here" review makes it seem like the setting of The Hills Have Eyes.

Can anyone here recommend nice towns/suburbs? Our three criteria are: low crime rate, clean air, and house prices that are not clown-shoes expensive. We don't care that much about weather (my irritatingly pale skin has had enough sunshine for a lifetime and every time I go to the dermatologist his warnings become more severe), so maybe somewhere up north would be nice?

Between the gushing estate agent write-ups and the pessimistic "I Live Here" reviews, I don't know what to believe.

I live here?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 11:39

Dotcheck · 30/09/2023 23:14

You can get actual crime statistics- perhaps start there, as well as the areas of deprivation index https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1371/#/E07000223

This is an excellent tool, thank you. I realise I am looking for what might be impossible - a place with a low cost of living, low property prices, will probably be a bit more deprived, and therefore have more crime? For me, feeling safe is the most important thing as throughout my life in SA I've been the victim of multiple crimes, two of them armed, and have developed anxiety from that. Willing to pay more for safety and security.

OP posts:
ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 11:44

jenpil · 30/09/2023 23:25

Avoid:

Luton.
Slough.
Romford.
Ilford.
Bradford.
Bolton.
Derby.
Wolverhampton.
West Bromwich.
Milton Keynes.

Most cathedral cities are nice and quite well-to-do, particularly the ones ending in -ester:

Chester.
Chichester.
Winchester.
Also: York, Canterbury and Exeter.

Edited

My gran was born in Chester!

OP posts:
ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 11:50

WhatapityWapiti · 30/09/2023 23:25

I’ve never heard the expression “clown shoes expensive” but basically you have London prices which possibly do fall into that category, and then expensive (but cheaper than London) in the rest of the country. Are jobs and schools not a factor?

I’d suggest Harrogate or Edinburgh. Depends also how much space you want for your money.

I made up that expression. What I meant was ridiculously/laughably expensive. No children, so schools not a factor. Yes, we will have to go where the jobs are at first, which will likely be in and around London or another large city, but as we become more familiar with the career landscape, and hopefully secure remote work (we currently work remotely for SA companies and our skills are well suited to remote work), we would probably want to move somewhere more peaceful and with lower property prices.

I've been to Harrogate before and it looked lovely. I see there are some nice neighbourhoods/suburbs and towns in the surrounding areas too.

OP posts:
ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 11:52

WhatapityWapiti · 30/09/2023 23:26

You should binge watch many of the hundreds of episodes of Location, Location, Location aka Kirstie and Phil.

Thank you, will do! Didn't know about that show.

OP posts:
ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 11:54

JaneJeffer · 30/09/2023 23:27

And The League of Gentlemen

Love that show :)

OP posts:
Photio · 01/10/2023 11:56

Clean air, low crime you'll get in loads of areas of Scotland. Lots of areas of decent house prices too.
Look at Fife, East Lothian and Perthshire

LilyPond2 · 01/10/2023 11:58

I think there's a lot to be said for Harrogate if you can afford somewhere nice there.

Crikeyalmighty · 01/10/2023 11:59

@ButternutSoup you could look around Bath- Bath itself is expensive (but good hospital and lovely countryide and well connected on train ) but there are other places and villages within 5 miles that are cheaper but nice- corsham, Bradford on Avon, winsley etc and Frome- 10 miles away is very trendy but way cheaper too -

I would also say around Salisbury might fit your bill too

TheYearOfSmallThings · 01/10/2023 12:03

Do you know roughly what your budget will be? You will get much more useful advice if so.

As far as crime I wouldn't worry greatly, any semi decent area will be so much safer then SA. You are MOST unlikely to be the victim of armed crime. Or other crime really, unless you include fly tipping, car paintwork scratching or bicycle theft.

Photio · 01/10/2023 12:06

TheYearOfSmallThings · 01/10/2023 12:03

Do you know roughly what your budget will be? You will get much more useful advice if so.

As far as crime I wouldn't worry greatly, any semi decent area will be so much safer then SA. You are MOST unlikely to be the victim of armed crime. Or other crime really, unless you include fly tipping, car paintwork scratching or bicycle theft.

Yes in my area of Scotland our local police office publish the crime statistics. The biggest crime is bicycle theft!

Nanasueathome · 01/10/2023 12:08

StowOnTheWold · 30/09/2023 22:52

Stow-on-the-Wold?

I always wanted to visit Stow on the Wold
Have been once.
Dont need to go again

RosaGallica · 01/10/2023 12:14

Honestly it depends hugely how much money you have, although even that isn’t the guarantee it used to be unless you’re in the Sunak category of rich.

Britain is not the place to look for areas of low crime: look at the recent news about retail crime, because no one can afford to make an honest living here. Drug crime and gangs have been increasing for decades. Education costs more than wages pay back. Clean air isn’t that great in a place that was being sued for breaching EU standards before we conveniently left the EU. Places that are far enough out of major centres to be affordable on wages paid usually have few jobs or opportunities.

Check rightmove for prices, get jobs lined up first, and look around areas before you move there. I don’t know about South Africa, it sounds much worse than here, but I can’t understand why anyone would want to come here if Europe is an option tbh.

PermanentTemporary · 01/10/2023 12:15

I'm not sure what your housing budget is, and the London train station that you commute into tends to influence where is a realistic distance away, although cross-city travel options are much better than they used to be. You might want to consider renting for a bit to get more if a feel for what you like.

You might like rural Buckinghamshire and around Maidenhead. There are some surprisingly remote and rural feeling bits, eg Taplow or Penn, and it does have stations.

DawnBeauty · 01/10/2023 12:35

Northumberland coast. Stunning scenery, peaceful and green with rural feel. Within striking distance of Newcastle, a stunning city. A lot chillier than the south but if that doesn't matter I would certainly have a look.

maddiemookins16mum · 01/10/2023 12:36

ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 11:33

Somewhere not too far away from a hospital. Peaceful, green, with a rural/village/suburban feel, but not too far away from a town or city with cultural attractions, theatre, etc. We would buy a car so that we can travel around at will, so somewhere where there is bad traffic would probably not be too good.

Witney (West Oxfordshire), or even better, one of the neighbouring villages (Hailey, North Leigh, Minster Lovell) etc.

ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 12:44

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 30/09/2023 23:30

Whats your reason for moving here? Do you want to be near any family or friends? What age/lifestage are you - do you have or plan children, are you wanting good retirement facilities and.community, or ample job opportunties? You say town/suburbs, which implies easy access to facilities/shops/entertainment is important; but you also say Scottish Highlands, which rather implies the opposite.

Our reasons are many and varied. To explain how we came to the incredibly difficult decision to leave this beautiful country, our home, our family and friends, would be difficult. The people of South Africa, the different cultures, are amazing. But we have been beleaguered by one terible government after another, all of whom have tried to divide us. I don't know if the struggles of post-colonial countries can be solved any time soon. Many of our family and friends have left already and are scattered around the world, wherever they've been able to find jobs. Most of us have some form of anxiety and PTSD from crime. I have been mugged at knifepoint, been burgled numerous times, had my car stolen, broken into, my husband and I have been the victims of an armed robbery and fraud. We cannot walk in the street. We live in gilded cages. And we are the lucky ones. The poor cannot afford security and are even more vulnerable to crime.

We had such high hopes when the ANC came into power after the first democratic elections. I was 11 at the time. We thought finally, the many poor and struggling South Africans would be lifted out of poverty. Now, after decades of ANC rule, people are poorer than ever, hunger is on the rise, we have had instances of cholera as a direct result of corruption and mismanagement. From the time of Zuma on, the country has been captured and sold to bad international actors, powerful entities, and govt officials. They have stolen everything and are now looting South Africa's corpse. They will probably escape to Dubai once they have lined their pockets and left us with nothing.

Our area in Johannesburg has been without water for weeks. We go hours a day without electricity. We have had to spend tens of thousands of our hard earned money on a water tank, solar panels, a water pump, and inverter. We pay huge taxes and I'd be happy to do so if I knew it was going to help alleviate the sea of deprivation and impoverishment, but the government literally steals it out of the mouths of the poor, and at every traffic light I stop at there are impoverished people begging for money. We go hours a day without electricity. We are selling our house now and moving down to the Western Cape asap as things are still working there, for now, as the ANC hasn't managed to get enough of the vote to be in power there.

I spent two years in England after high school and loved it. I don't think I will feel safe until I am out of SA. I know I said I'm looking for areas in the UK with a lower cost of living, but honestly am willing to pay more to be in a safe area where I can be free to walk on the street and in the park, and take a train without fear of being attacked. We wanted to stay and be a part of building an inclusive and prosperous SA and have lived in hope for years, but those hopes are dashed now, even though many people still live in denial, saying maybe things will turn around, even though it is obvious SA is now a failed state.

We are in our 40s and excited about the larger economy and greater opportunity to grow in our careers in the UK. Businesses have been pulling out of SA at an alarming rate, engineers and doctors are leaving in droves. I am a legal editor and my husband is a web designer and fine artist. We have no children. We are civic-minded, ethical, hard-working and law-abiding people who will contribute to the economy and to our communities. I work in animal rescue here on a volunteer basis, but have had to stop as there have been too many hijackings on the road to our nearest SPCA.

The Scottish Highlands idea is just a flight of fancy; in reality we will want to be near shops, hospitals and culture. But safety is paramount, as I cannot continue to wake up at night in terror after having nightmares about a home invasion.

We also don't see a future for our careers if we lose our jobs or our companies fold. At each HR meeting for the last couple of years, we have been told that there are too many white, so-called coloured and Indian people in our company and we need to reduce the number to a much smaller percentage. African nationalism is rising, especially with the growing popularity of Julius Malema and the EFF. There is now a ban on hiring any more white people into the company. And it's not my company's fault, it is the national legislation which requires these quotas. I know we need to redress the imbalances of the past, but I also need a livelihood to survive, and I know I shouldn't take it personally, but hearing my companies management tell me I am the wrong colour and that they need to get rid of people with my skin colour is extremely demoralising and also frightening.

I'm sorry if this all sounds like a pity party. I know how lucky we are to be able to get an ancestry visa (it's pretty much a sure thing according to our immigration lawyer) which will allow us to get out of SA and go to a more stable and developed country. But this is actually the truth about living in South Africa in the provinces outside the Western Cape. And our elderly parents refuse to come with us so we are dealing with grief and anxiety about leaving them here. Everywhere the ANC governs has crumbled into a dystopian nightmare.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 01/10/2023 12:51

💐 butternut

Peaceful is very possible in the UK and I hope you find it.

It was a few years ago but I remember someone who'd come to the UK saying they liked living in a country where the newspapers blast headlines about imminent societal breakdown but if he looked out of the window he saw a man throwing a stick for a dog; he'd lived in countries where it was the other way around for too long.

Your budget will make a big difference but I'm certain you can find somewhere that you'll enjoy.

ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 12:55

RosaGallica · 01/10/2023 12:14

Honestly it depends hugely how much money you have, although even that isn’t the guarantee it used to be unless you’re in the Sunak category of rich.

Britain is not the place to look for areas of low crime: look at the recent news about retail crime, because no one can afford to make an honest living here. Drug crime and gangs have been increasing for decades. Education costs more than wages pay back. Clean air isn’t that great in a place that was being sued for breaching EU standards before we conveniently left the EU. Places that are far enough out of major centres to be affordable on wages paid usually have few jobs or opportunities.

Check rightmove for prices, get jobs lined up first, and look around areas before you move there. I don’t know about South Africa, it sounds much worse than here, but I can’t understand why anyone would want to come here if Europe is an option tbh.

Yes I can see the problems have increased in post-Brexit Britain. But you are right that South Africa is worse - see my reply further down. We can't get into anywhere in the EU without having millions, and I don't want to live in a non-English speaking country anyway. The UK is the only viable option for us due to my ancestry link.

OP posts:
TruthSeeker2023 · 01/10/2023 13:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Galiana · 01/10/2023 13:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I imagine OP will be working and paying tax @TruthSeeker2023.

What a nasty comment.

OP, how about the Peak District? I live there, beautiful countryside and villages/market towns, house prices not too bad and you can be in Manchester or Sheffield on a train in about 40 minutes, London in about 2 hours. Very low crime rates, lots of civic involvement. I have a friend who moved from SA and he loves it here.

It does rain a lot though!

Photio · 01/10/2023 13:07

@RosaGallica I don't know where in UK you live but can assure you there are plenty of places in Scotland with very low crime rates and where violent crime, which I think is what @ButternutSoup is talking about are very rare.
Edinburgh, for example, is a very safe city and my older teens could walk home at night alone

JaneJeffer · 01/10/2023 13:08

Have you considered Northern Ireland @ButternutSoup?

ButternutSoup · 01/10/2023 13:09

TheYearOfSmallThings · 01/10/2023 12:03

Do you know roughly what your budget will be? You will get much more useful advice if so.

As far as crime I wouldn't worry greatly, any semi decent area will be so much safer then SA. You are MOST unlikely to be the victim of armed crime. Or other crime really, unless you include fly tipping, car paintwork scratching or bicycle theft.

It's hard to know what our budget will be before we've secured jobs there. We are coming over with quite a bit in Rands, but of course this will be much less when converted to Pounds. We are taking a big financial knock. But I'm banking on the fact that we are both likely to get decent jobs as we have reasonably marketable skills, and we will be frugal and save as much as we can. We are prepared to be living in a much smaller place, of course. Here in Joburg we own a spacious four bedroomed, nicely renovated house and a large garden, wonderful for our two cats. Two cars, pensions, etc. I don't know what this will translate to in the UK but it won't be much. We are bringing our cats too, of course. So I'm thinking we would be in the upper working class to lower middle class type of area. Although I hear the cost of living in increasing.

OP posts:
ButDaddyILoveHim · 01/10/2023 13:09

OP, your description of life in SA resonates with me as I have several friends and family members who lived there, many of whom have either already left or are trying to. You're absolutely right about gilded cages.

Whilst the UK is far from perfect, with rising crime and falling standards of living, we are still a million miles away from what you have experienced. Even in the most deprived areas of the UK you will not need to live in fear of home invasions / hijackings etc. These things are pretty much unheard of here.

There are plenty of peaceful, pretty commuter towns in the Home Counties (Surrey, Kent, Sussex, Hampshire, Herts etc) with good amenities and straightforward (though expensive!) travel to London. Where you eventually settle will probably depend a bit on where you work in London (and therefore what station you come into) but there are also lots of WFH/ hybrid jobs around where a daily commute is no longer necessary. All the very best with your search

Yerroblemom1923 · 01/10/2023 13:11

Manchester, Lancashire, Yorkshire. Countryside but affordable. And within commuting distance to Manc or Leeds if you need to do city life.