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Original poster

If you're worried about rising private school fees..

545 replies

CurlewKate · 28/09/2023 13:35

... why not just get a better paid job? It apparently works for poor people.

OP posts:
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5
EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 18:14

Radiodread · 28/09/2023 18:12

There are a lot of assumptions on this thread, some of which may not be or are definitely not correct:

  • that schools will pass on the whole of the VAT charge to parents, not necessarily true, as some stuff will likely be exempt
  • That VAT will in effect be levied on the entire school fee, and on all types of school fees - also not necessarily true, and in the case of specialist school fees pretty unlikely
  • that there will be a mass exodus from the independent sector, there is not very strong evidence to support this, school fees have gone up massively in the last two decades but the % of pupils in independents has remained broadly the same
  • that any displaced independent sector pupils will cause a ‘massive burden’ on state schools. We don’t know this and estimates of costs and benefits suggest a net gain of more than a billion a year for the treasury.

On your second last point surely it’s easy to see a difference between a gradual rise and a sudden big jump

BlurredEdges · 28/09/2023 18:14

OloOloOlo · 28/09/2023 17:05

@SafferUpNorth The VAT on fees money is to be spent on largely on disadvantaged students. There will be no wholesale investment/upgrade on education.

That sounds great to me - what's the problem?

BlurredEdges · 28/09/2023 18:16

Highandlows · 28/09/2023 17:20

@BlurredEdges no I think you just feel entitled to other people’s money as many on this country.

Not sure which of my posts you were replying to here, but what makes you imagine that I feel entitled to, or indeed receive, 'other people's money'?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Private schooling
BlurredEdges · 28/09/2023 18:18

StaunchMomma · 28/09/2023 16:55

I get the 'joke' as such, I just think that's being rather dismissive of the fact that many people already do scrimp, save and go without to pay school fees and obviously they are going to worry about potentially having to make their child move schools, as all good parents would.

People who can't really afford private school shouldn't have sent their children there in the first place.

Begsthequestion · 28/09/2023 18:18

Iwishicouldflyhigh · 28/09/2023 18:04

i didn’t realise that there was data out there which detailed the number of scholarships given across the Uk, the amount given and the financial details of the recipients. Pray share, OP.

Show quote history

Yes, there is data out there:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/31/private-school-bursaries-still-too-scarce-to-tackle-inequality

This is the link to the cited study:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09645292.2021.1874878

HTH

Private school bursaries 'still too scarce' to tackle inequality

UCL study of admissions shows financial support for poorer pupils has a limited impact, despite claims to the contrary

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/31/private-school-bursaries-still-too-scarce-to-tackle-inequality

Beezknees · 28/09/2023 18:19

BlurredEdges · 28/09/2023 18:18

People who can't really afford private school shouldn't have sent their children there in the first place.

Show quote history

Exactly. It's called living within your means. If you can't COMFORTABLY afford it, don't do it. No sympathy from me.

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 18:21

Fewer people will do it and use state instead. Probably put money into the house for the catchment

OnAFrolicOfMyOwn · 28/09/2023 18:22

People who can't afford private education due to rising costs are simply joining the approx 95% of people who were never able to afford it. There are things you can afford and things you can't - unless basic necessities such as food fall into your 'can't' it's a case of 'tough luck'.

No envy here because I am childfree!

Begsthequestion · 28/09/2023 18:22

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 18:00

Do you know the numbers?

Show quote history

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09645292.2021.1874878

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 18:22

In fairness, there's a drop in children being born after 2011, so maybe a bit if govt motivation to get more kids into State?

LolaSmiles · 28/09/2023 18:27

Absolutely. They can have a laugh, maybe vote Labour even (as per pp), and be secure no one is going to take them to task on the real gap
Absolutely. The people actually at the top aren't going to be affected by the decisions that tinker around the edge and pull the drawbridge up on middle class families.
It's a cheap, divisive and anyone pitting normal families against each other whilst the elite laugh on needs to take a look at themselves.

Oiyouoverthere · 28/09/2023 18:27

Thankfully my kids school already charges VAT on the fees.

Dibblydoodahdah · 28/09/2023 18:31

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 18:22

In fairness, there's a drop in children being born after 2011, so maybe a bit if govt motivation to get more kids into State?

Wouldn’t it be amazing if instead of using the drop in numbers to try to squeeze children out of private schools Labour committed to reduce state school class sizes to a maximum of 24 instead.

Cabeza · 28/09/2023 18:33

I don't think the money gained is worth it. When Labour scrapped the assisted places scheme to put money into key stage 1, it evidently wasn't worth it as we have been repeatedly told many children still aren't leaving primary school with a decent level of ability.

I also think the timing is bad. The baby boom of the mid-late 2000s are still working their way through schools for the next 5 years so there is pressure in places in key stage 4 and 5. Projections I read yesterday are about 80000+ more 18 year olds for several years to come, than 10-15 years ago.

There is already a lot of support for disadvantaged school children mandated by the Office for Students, funding for which comes from university fees. And many educational charities in this field e.g. the Sutton Trust, the Brilliant Club, to name 2 of scores out there, national and local.

I for one will be sad to see the middle level independent schools go. Fee increases won't affect the really rich, so won't affect social mobility as the Eton types will continue.

I'd much rather see a high earner's tax, and more tax on big business. 2% into the pot from independent schools is not worth it.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 18:33

Yes it would be

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 18:33

Dibblydoodahdah · 28/09/2023 18:31

Wouldn’t it be amazing if instead of using the drop in numbers to try to squeeze children out of private schools Labour committed to reduce state school class sizes to a maximum of 24 instead.

Show quote history

That would be great

Princessandthepea0 · 28/09/2023 18:34

The absolutely painfully dumb politics of envy is destroying the country. It’s not the rich that will find this hard. It’s not the 54.2% net takers who don’t contribute to society. Those middle households who will probably now start rethinking this option - they will just chose state schools. Problem is, they already can’t cope as it is. Massively understaffed and resourced. The only bonus - they will be able to buy a house in a decent catchment. This means this deprived schools will become more so.

Before you get party poppers out - I’d develop some critical thinking about what you’re saying.

DuncinToffee · 28/09/2023 18:38

Dibblydoodahdah · 28/09/2023 18:31

Wouldn’t it be amazing if instead of using the drop in numbers to try to squeeze children out of private schools Labour committed to reduce state school class sizes to a maximum of 24 instead.

Show quote history

Even better, Labour could charge private schools VAT and reduce class sizes in state schools

Begsthequestion · 28/09/2023 18:38

Princessandthepea0 · 28/09/2023 18:34

The absolutely painfully dumb politics of envy is destroying the country. It’s not the rich that will find this hard. It’s not the 54.2% net takers who don’t contribute to society. Those middle households who will probably now start rethinking this option - they will just chose state schools. Problem is, they already can’t cope as it is. Massively understaffed and resourced. The only bonus - they will be able to buy a house in a decent catchment. This means this deprived schools will become more so.

Before you get party poppers out - I’d develop some critical thinking about what you’re saying.

In that case, let's abolish private schools completely and properly fund state education instead.

It's about equality, not envy.

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 28/09/2023 18:40

Freepo · 28/09/2023 15:15

Exactly. Really unpleasant.

It’s pretty fucking unpleasant when low-waged people are told to “just move” or “just get a better job”.

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 18:40

DuncinToffee · 28/09/2023 18:38

Even better, Labour could charge private schools VAT and reduce class sizes in state schools

Show quote history

Charging VAT stops the reduction in sizes though as people move

Pp has the best idea

Beezknees · 28/09/2023 18:41

LolaSmiles · 28/09/2023 18:27

Absolutely. They can have a laugh, maybe vote Labour even (as per pp), and be secure no one is going to take them to task on the real gap
Absolutely. The people actually at the top aren't going to be affected by the decisions that tinker around the edge and pull the drawbridge up on middle class families.
It's a cheap, divisive and anyone pitting normal families against each other whilst the elite laugh on needs to take a look at themselves.

Nothing "normal" about being able to afford private school fees. The average household income is £35,000. No one is paying private school fees on that.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 18:42

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 28/09/2023 18:40

It’s pretty fucking unpleasant when low-waged people are told to “just move” or “just get a better job”.

Show quote history

Or get told by wealthy people "I worked hard for this", like people on NMW or low NHS bands don't work hard

Universitynewbie · 28/09/2023 18:42

MintJulia · 28/09/2023 14:35

I'm a single mum with a ds on a maths scholarship. This is his gcse year. I'm glad you find this amusing 🙄.

I manage to scrape the remaining fees plus uniform money together somehow. Thankfully if Labour choose to wreck the scholarship system it will only affect ds' final a'level year.
I'll sell stuff or take out a loan to get him through the last three terms.

But a tragedy for younger scholarship kids.

God forbid they would have to attend a state school hey? Horrific

Princessandthepea0 · 28/09/2023 18:44

Begsthequestion · 28/09/2023 18:38

In that case, let's abolish private schools completely and properly fund state education instead.

It's about equality, not envy.

Show quote history

With what money? We have the highest state dependency on record. 54.2% of adults are now net takers. There isn’t enough people paying in. Schools don’t have enough money as is. All this will lead to is an upward pressure especially at KS3 the state doesn’t have money for. Those middle earners will have the money to get a nice house in a nice catchment. This will make deprivation worse.

Not sure where you think this money tree is coming from. In the real world…