If you're worried about rising private school fees..

[CurlewKate]

... why not just get a better paid job? It apparently works for poor people.

I am interested in how all this will play out, as I have a little insight into the reality on the ground in independent schools and I think there are a few assumptions being made about the outcome of VAT and charity status changes.

I have taught in state, a middling independent day school, and now a public school. Although there are teachers that move between sectors, I am in the minority in my current school. Most of the staff went to public school themselves and have only taught in the independent sector. Movement here is between UK independent schools and the international market. There has been a big expansion in UK independent schools opening satellite schools in Asia and the Middle East, and I have seen a lot of movement abroad to these schools in the past few years. If the UK independent sector entered choppy waters, I think many staff would seek a move abroad, not to the UK state sector.

I do wonder what people really mean when they say that the government will pay for more teachers for state schools with the money raised from private schools. There is not a queue of people waiting to train to teach. The government are not currently meeting recruitment targets. That is not because there are not enough training places (as with doctors) but because it is not an attractive career. The reasons behind this are really cultural in the UK, and money will not solve the problem. Teaching is held in low regard here.

Some day schools will go to the wall, and there will be a bit of a trickle of kids into state, but I doubt it will be a massive influx. That middle ground between state and public school will just gradually disappear, I think.

So, I'm not sure what this will really achieve. The existence of the independent sector in the UK has not been to the detriment of state provision, in my opinion. Countries that rank highly on PISA tend to hold education in high regard. We should be having a real conversation about how we can change our attitude in the UK. Trying to choke off the independent sector will have little impact on the state sector. It distracts from the real deep rooted issues.

Thanks for this post, I agree

Why are their reasons ‘casual’ when yours are not?

because if my grandparents had not left when they did, they would have been murdered a few years later. All of them.* *As were all of the relatives that stayed behind.

P.s. @AliciaLime I am a higher-rate tax payer.

My idea is to draw a line across the country, just below Sheffield. Everyone below the line has to pay ‘Northern Tax’ to everyone above it. Everyone in the South is minted anyway so they won’t notice.
I believe this will solve all the above problems and everyone can stay put in their respective schools.

The people I know who left because of Brexit were all people from other EU countries who mostly/all went back to their countries of origin.

It's a sadder place without them (those who were my friends) but I understand why they did it.

That's a terrible thing to do though. How on earth could someone choose private education over heating? Children can get seriously ill from living in cold homes, even develop lifelong health conditions, and it's bloody miserable to suffer like that.

why would you choose posh school over heating, holidays, and decent food, when there is free education for all?

Why on earth would they do that?

Yes. My grandparents too, actually. I believe there are many of us in that situation, given the scale of the events. I do not assume all other people’s reasons are casual however.

Wonderful.

Higher rate tax payer pretty much means nothing now. It’s not an Earth shattering wage for a professional. Try, higher-higher rate with the loss of everything that means.

Anecdotally most of our circle aren’t happy and are off to Singapore and the USA. Taking very in demand skill sets with them. Also their taxes. It is what it is.

I think most reasons to move or emigrate are casual compared to 'the very real imminent threat of being killed', don't you?

I was just answering your question.

Ditto wrt the higher rate taxpayer thing..you said we are not all cartoon baddies. I was pointing out I obviously don't think that, as I also fall into that category.

It's not remotely earth shattering. I was responding to a particular point made by the previous poster. I live a normal life and cut my cloth according to my means. I am very, very lucky compared to many in this country.

I also don't resent paying taxes because I don't want people to be suffering in poverty around me while I live a comfortable lifestyle.

Others feel differently. I get that. I'd hate to live in Singapore or the US among the ultra-rich. In my experience, they are not people l get on with at all. No shared values and nothing in common. I'm not interested in money or status or flash possessions, I just want enough to ensure my children don't suffer or go without.

Ok.

Come on. Don't tell you are in the top most rate and this tips you over. It's peanuts in that context.

Going to say another country for a career move is totally valid. But moving on the basis of VAT? Pull the other one it's got bells on it.

It’s those ‘ultra rich’ paying the most in tax though. Not the 60k a year manager.

That’s not what I said. Couldn’t care less about private school fees. We bought in one of the best state school catchments in the country. I don’t like the level of state dependency as it - it’s not sustainable and despite massive amounts of tax - people still want more. All the while over half of the population aren’t paying in at all. No thanks. It’s the general direction of the country. Leaving for a better life, more money and broader tax system is a definite plus. Which is why people are doing it. Not difficult when paying so much for nothing but crap back.

Well yeah... that's how tax works, innit.

Yeah so a bit fucked when they are an ever decreasing pool. Blimey. Doesn’t matter if you want to join them or not. It’s their taxes which matter.

The country can't be held to ransom by the demands of a tiny number of very rich people. Sorry.

Most of the posters on this thread have been saying they can't afford a 20% increase in school fees, so they're not in that category at all, and that is what's being discussed here.

A Labour government is never going to be the choice of the ultra rich who go wherever tax is lowest. So it's irrelevant really.

They are though because of the way the tax system works. Literally, this country is in colossal debt with the highest state dependency on record. 83% of all income tax is paid by 40% of adults. The top 1% result in approximately 1/3 of government income. The higher earners quite literally do hold the country to ransom. They are taxed so heavily they do all the heavily lifting. Everyone else literally relies on much higher earners to pay for everything. Problem is, there isn’t enough of them to go around anymore. They are leaving or changing habits. People think they are ‘owed’ higher wages for doing nothing or putting in ‘16 hours.’ All going to shit now as we can’t afford it - ONS released it all this year.

As has been said on this thread, it’s half the reason why Tony Blair was quite successful. He knew not to piss off the biggest stream of income the government had. Logical really.

I'm inclined to point out that this particular shit show on tax is entirely Conservative and I would not disagree with a lot of what you say @Princessandthepea0

The current welfare system and tax bands needs reform.

However, the original issue here was private schooling. And really, no one can ever claim that this is something that they are entitled to. It's a service you pay for. Cut your cloth and all that.

Which goes full circle. It’s not the rich that will have the problem. It’s will be those middle earners who then may change working habits - if they’ve been working to fund. It may mean upwards pressure especially at KS3/4 in state places. Those in the middle will have a choice to move to a nice catchment and top up. Those schools in pockets of deprivation will get bigger. All for minimal funding and pissing off people who are on the cusp of being net contributors, it’s so short sighted I don’t even know where to begin. It’s a populist idea which hasn’t been costed because people don’t think about this long term.

Not THE reason but it may very well be ONE of the reasons. That’s the point I am making.
If people were happy with everything else I don’t believe there would be such a strong reaction to this policy but lots
of people are not happy and this is one more thing to piss some of them off. We baked the 20% into our financial planning because this threat has been around since the last election. However, what we didn’t bake in is our other outgoings rising £1k per month in a year.

Bombastix
You say ‘Going to say another country for a career move is totally valid. But moving on the basis of VAT? Pull the other one it's got bells on it.’

Okay, but surely if someone moves abroad for a career move, then they and the family will still suffer what BlurredEdges said:

So I find it completely bizarre that people who presumably have histories in this country going back considerably further than mine, and children who have spent their whole lives growing up here, and have friends, families, favourite places, etc., would just casually uproot them from all that and go somewhere else unfamiliar and new - not because of fear for your life, or desperate need, but because... of slightly higher taxes.

Why is it ok for a family to suffer all that for the sake of a career move?

How will Labour improve on this though?

Literally, this country is in colossal debt with the highest state dependency on record. 83% of all income tax is paid by 40% of adults. The top 1% result in approximately 1/3 of government income. The higher earners quite literally do hold the country to ransom. They are taxed so heavily they do all the heavily lifting. Everyone else literally relies on much higher earners to pay for everything. Problem is, there isn’t enough of them to go around anymore. They are leaving or changing habits. People think they are ‘owed’ higher wages for doing nothing or putting in ‘16 hours.’ All going to shit now as we can’t afford it - ONS released it all this year.

It sounds like they will be adding more taxes