If you're worried about rising private school fees..

[CurlewKate]

... why not just get a better paid job? It apparently works for poor people.

The other thing about relocating; these sums being discussed are not massive. But if overall it tips you over into leaving then okay. Economically though it suggests that decisions to put children into private schooling is a knife edge consideration. I would not want to live like that.

Imo there’s a psychological element

People will pay but against a backdrop of huge state dependency and voter appetite to squeeze them and other countries start to look a bit brighter

I love it here but I’m not looking forward to the realities of an increasing dependency

I’d rather people didn’t put the boot in in spirit or with gimmick policies because we do need higher earners for the tax burden

On the flip side we’re told Drs etc move easily so this idea we’re that stuck and don’t go for finance and opportunity doesn’t hold up. People do it a fair bit.

I am now scratching my head: to be criticised for talking about money on a thread about VAT, taxes, affordability and money. I’ll go back to the real world and you can stay in your fantasy land where people pay for stuff with marshmallows and welcome higher taxes so their NEET neighbour can afford a better Sky package. I sort of admire socialists for their rose-tinted glasses, love of community and belief in building a new Jerusalem but I am a pragmatic, fiscally responsible, self-reliant, steely hearted Tory. I am not wedded to the UK and my kids will be just fine (jeez my youngest spent part of the weekend on teams playing Roblox with his mate who now lives in Singapore). And it won’t just be VAT on school fees. It’ll be wealth taxes, non-dom attacked, etc etc.

You’re correct; it won’t just be VAT on school fees. They’ll probably start going after private healthcare, dentistry, IHT etc. If people think the Labour Party will stop at private school parents, they’re mistaken. Unfortunately the Labour Party don’t seem to like families who’ve worked hard and done well in life.

Well I don't think you can do too much on psychology. But I am old enough to remember this before. I am also surprised that people think this is something that never happens. In my lifetime and that of my family we have seen this or similar from Labour. It is not a surprise, and by their policy standards it's actually moderate! Such is the nature of democracy.

Someone posted below that Gove favored this too.

@Teentaxidriver and I'll go back to working with those who have never had even 1/8 of the advantages that most private school kids have had. Life isn't a fair playing field and private schools are just one of the many many reasons why. I work with some people who never had a bed growing up, can you imagine that? Searching in the kitchen for food, not realising that pasta should be cooked as they just ate it raw as a kid. So excuse me for not getting my violin out for those scrabbling to pay some extra tax. No rose tinted glasses here, I don't think this tax will make things better for state schools. But I won't fight for this cause, I won't beg anyone to stay in the UK.
There's no reason why those who are on high incomes shouldn't feel the pinch a bit. If benefits can be taken away on an whim, if bedroom tax mean that a mum can't offer a room to her daughter when she gets back from uni or a dad can't stay in the same house where he raised his son, who died. If a woman leaving an abusive relationship is forced to stay due to the council refusing to acknowledge her. I don't think there is much sympathy on MN for these people. It's all LTB but don't you dare need benefits or live in social housing.

Yes, me too.

Anyone who thinks that a country can be considered 'successful' if its state schools are apparently so appalling that it's better to emigrate to another country than allow their children to go there has a really fucking weird definition of success.

It’s a different tack to Blair

I wasn’t around to see the Labour gov here before that

It’s a political ploy atm rather than economically beneficial

But I am reminded of that old phrase which I like

The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing

I agree with that, I don’t mind a decent tax receipt we’re going to need it. Starmer is for a bit of hissing for votes because funding is slim and there’s not much between the parties. I’d rather the goose stays though (as did Blair imo)

@Another76543 ah yes the classic 'all we did was work hard!' Lots of people work hard and have to deal with shit from the government. Try being a single mother in 2023. Policies adversely effect me all the time, the middle classes don't give a shit.

welcome higher taxes so their NEET neighbour can afford a better Sky package.

Thank you @Teentaxidriver for showing what you really think of poor people. I was spot on in my first post about why you pay for your children not to go to school with them.

Mask slipped a little in your last post. Oops.

I didn’t say other people don’t work hard? This policy won’t affect the super wealthy people - those with vast inherited wealth who haven’t necessarily had to work hard. It’ll affect families who have worked hard and don’t have a few thousand pounds a year extra spare.

It's quoted often but it's not actually a race to the bottom you know. My son is one of those with some mild SEN who was failed by the state and who we have opted to send private (other DC are in state system). I work really hard to make the state system better - I'm a Governor at the local secondary and I run a group for young people from all different backgrounds. I give a lot of my time but that is not going to change the fact my son was bullied and failed to thrive due to the educational environment he was in. I am in no way oblivious that we are privileged to be able to do that and yes we will feel the pinch. It makes me very sad to feel that efforts we put in to help better his situation are in jeopardy.

Your assumptions that people who send their kids to private school have no understanding of the hardships of life is quite frankly insulting. I work with the most vulnerable in society. My father was an abusive alcoholic and I was homeless at 17. I don't need to imagine it, I lived it too.

@Darkest well if you know then you would have been as annoyed as I was at the ' NEETs with sky packages' comment. It was that poster who received my wrath not all private school parents. But as you will know, fortunately your child will still have ten times the quality of life that you had, even without private school. We all have to step back and realise how lucky we are at time, even when it feels like things are tough. The OP of this thread made a valid point, as soon as anyone on MN moans about anything to do with not being able to afford something, the suggestions are usually 'retrain, take in ironing, eat more lentils' yet we don't offer that advice to the middle classes now struggling to afford private school, why is that? Why when they struggle to afford something, we don't put the responsibility on them to make changes? We don't make the link between them being somehow irresponsible or impulsive, as with poor people. When someone moans about not being able to afford private school for two kids, no one says 'why the hell did you have two?'
It's about something blaming something external. Those horrible labour politicians rather than people living outside of their means.

Would you say that about people about to have their homes repossessed because they can no longer afford their mortgage due to a sudden jump in costs?

Perhaps no-one should buy a house if they have to scrimp and save because "they can't really afford it''

Appalled by the nastiness on this thread.

CarrotJanice but I did retrain to be able to afford private school fees. You seem to think that the parents of children at private school can not possibly compute hardship.

We are right on a tax threshold which means that if if I were even able to take in £10k of extra ironing then I would see approximately £2k of that and the rest goes in tax (CB, student loan on top of 40%). So that sneery OP post grates somewhat and yes I do feel we are potentially having something taken away from us and with very little control over it. I can't magic up an £4k per year when the reality is I'd need to be earning £15k + to be able to do so.

I bloody wish I felt that I could send my son to the local school without it having a hugely negative impact on him. VAT on school fees will only affect the people like us (of which there are many). The rich won't give two hoots and this will only serve to widen the gap.

I couldn't agree more. And those with aspiration and talent will leave the UK. The future of the UK is not looking good.

But you started the whole thread with a single flippant sentence.

@CarrotJanice I'm a single mum, like you, work full time, have a ds in independent school on a scholarship and I eat porridge & lentils, cut every cost I can and don't have Netflix or Sky or drink Costa, things that various nasty-minded posters have said. I guess I count as middle class, just about.

All these things are not mutually exclusive. Like most parentsI'm just doing my best.

I don't understand the level of venom on this thread, we're all the same in the end.

We could no longer afford London so have already had to uproot from London, so no real ties to where we now live. I am sure this is true for many.

And its not just this tax though is it, there have been big rises across the board and almost certainly more to come. Plenty of my friends have moved overseas and none have regretted it.

More will also move to reduce IHT as the UK has one of the most punitive systems for IHT.

@ChocolateyBiccy - now that comment really literally takes the biscuit. Only someone with the most minor emotional ties to the UK would say so.

The U.K. is a good place and has many good people: ih my social circle which is definitely well to do this policy is of little comment. We aren't going to pack up over a few grand and take a proportionate view.

I couldn't agree more. My parents hugely struggled to afford to send me to private school and we grew up on the likes of porridge and lentils. No holidays, no pocket money. House always freezing cold.

Yes it was their choice to send me to private school but it was huge sacrifice for them and I pity parents in this situation who are now faced with potentially a 20% increase in fees.

Basically I would like to know why a few posters suddenly have decided that this is so dire. My suspicion is they have few long term roots in the U.K.

For a few grand it's bloody flaky.

Well clearly we move in different circles then.

There is a tipping point and its getting closer for many.

I'll say it again for the benefit of the hard of understanding - one of my children is at a state school and the other at a private school. Both is at the best school for them. I didn't chose the prep because I didn't want my child to mix with "poor" children. It was chosen for its ability to nurture and maximise my child's talents. I don't give a hoot about how wealthy someone is, by the way, I have friends with all sorts of backgrounds. I was a lawyer in the City at an American law firm and I then retrained as a state school teacher and chose to work at a secondary in an incredibly poor area. Yes, shock horror I was that person bringing in stationary and food for children who couldn't afford what they need. The thing that stuck me was that of the families in dire straits, many don't simply struggle because of circumstances there is also usually a self-inflicted element - parents don't work, parents have more children than they can afford to support, parents aren't married so relationships are less stable. We have two children because that is what we could afford. I would have loved to have another child but we couldn't afford it without reducing the resources for our two existing children. These are the sort of pragmatic choices I am talking about. Moving abroad in the face of an onslaught of tax hikes falls into that bracket, I am afraid. My husband was the child of a violent alcoholic single mother so I think you'll find he knows a thing or two about being in the shit BUT also about working your way out of it.