If you're worried about rising private school fees..

[CurlewKate]

... why not just get a better paid job? It apparently works for poor people.

Actually I’d quite like it if people didn’t try to push higher earners out (both medium and maximum)

The tax burden is incredibly high and we need people to pay it

Again good luck with the taxes that billionaires and oligarchs are paying here as it is going so well. As for my kids at least I do not expect others to pay for their education. They will continue to have excellent education and parents support so they will be fine. They won’t be judged and a target because they went to private.

I suppose currently the money that people pay in fees pays the wages of the people that work in the private schools. I don’t think people paying £20k+ a year for private will donate that money to the state school their kids go to if they couldn’t afford the price rise - and why should they, it’s meant to be free right? So they will plough that money into savings, investments, a ‘better’ house plus tutoring and extra curriculars for their dc. I guess there will be some extra money in the pot from the people that can afford 20% extra, but a load more people will disappear from the system or never go into it in the first place, so it won’t pay out long term.

Low wages, a high cost of living and underinvestment in education for 13 years can’t be fixed by taking a billion off of some parents. It sounds like a lot but it’s nowt in the grand scheme of things.

@SomethingFun I think the idea is that those who say 'we won't be able to afford private school' actually will find a way and therefore their taxes SHOULD fund state education.

Well said.
The point people are making re couldn't we make private schools support state education is what is supposed to be happening! Except it's not and that's one of the reasons why Labour were considering taking away their charitable status. I understand that they're aren't going to do that now because it will take years and they want to implement the policy asap. Good for them.
When people voted in the Tories 13 years ago it was in the full knowledge there were going to be severe cuts in public services but voted for them anyway. The whole country is suffering for that now.

1. Almost none of the petulant people throwing their toys out of the pram are actually going to leave. They are trying to threaten and throw their weight around, while fundamentally misunderstanding how weak that clout is.

1. Most of the people on this thread keep telling us how they're not wealthy, how they have to scrimp and save and watch every penny just to ensure their child doesn't have to mix with the plebs. Their money isn't benefitting anyone apart from themselves.

1. I'm one of the "net contributors" with whom posters on this thread are so obsessed. I think being selfish, grasping, and trying to blackmail others with the threat of emigration or quitting work or stopping giving to charity is just a really really bad look. I really hope no one i know is posting stuff like this.

But their taxes do fund state education? I dunno, taking delight in the people who can only afford an extra 20% on fees by going without new clothes or shoes or holidays or having to get a second job isn’t worth all this angst imho. And those that can’t afford the extra 20% aren’t going to give that fees money to the state - unless we are also talking about putting tax up to ridiculously high rates for everyone that earns over 35k a year and has kids, so it definitely goes in the pot.

20% in one go is a lot.

If Labour are canny, they'll make the first introduction at a lower rate (say 5%) and then (as I've predicted before) there will be frog-boiling increases down the line.

Including under the Tories - remember that Gove favours this policy, and who knows what the shape of the Conservative Party will be in 5+ years time.

You have to pay tax once you earn 12k ish. And everyone pays other types of tax. Being a taxpayer isn't unusual.

I would suggest that someone going without clothes and shoes to pay school fees... isn't rich enough to pay for school fees. Shrug.

I can't afford a superyacht or first-class air travel or a mansion in Knightsbridge. So I don't have them. It's not rocket science.

My sympathy lies with the people who can't afford clothes or shoes AND they're not paying thousands in school fees. They are the people who are actually in need.

People choosing to pay for something they could have for free, in order to try to buy extra privilege, and whining about it, while others are living in mould-infested council flats unable to give their children a hot dinner or a bus fare or buy a basic school uniform for their state school?

Yeah, really, they can sod off with that. Tone-deaf and utterly selfish.

That’s great but people do change behaviour based on finances all the time.

Taking into account what that might be when making policies is a good idea not a bad one.

@BlurredEdges indeed! Despite all the hand wringing about their children not being able to learn alongside the disruptive kids from troubled backgrounds, well some of those kids achieve and get to university too. So why can't your child who presumably has more advantages? I went to university alongside two people who grew up with parents addicted to drugs and one care leaver who had 15 addresses before they were twelve. You can make it if you want it enough.

What an unpleasant thread.

It’s certainly going to be an interesting time if labour get in to see how this pans out. To those asking where other people will move to there are international schools in many countries it doesn’t have to be America or Scandinavia. Spain, France, Switzerland, UAE to name a few . Those who have spent years on holiday in these places will often have a second home there and moving is much easier than you would think. International schools are mostly just like plonking a decent private school by the med. They speak English as a rule

This is my prediction what will happen.

20% comes in immediately . Schools won’t pass on the full 20%. They will cut some spending, they will postpone infrastructure projects and cut the amount of money in the bursary pot. They will support those who might not be able to afford the fees anymore by using the remaining bursary pot. They will heavily reduce the bursary available for new pupils. There will be a tiny increase in state school pupils which will somehow be absorbed

1-2 years in Keir S will proclaim - look how successful our policy is! We are raking it in. That max exodus of private school pupils hasn’t happened. we were right. I’m doing my bit to combat social inequality. Evil tories etc etc etc

the teachers at state schools start to ask for more money. They say you are bringing in this extra money to invest in schools. We are underpaid (which i whole heartedly agree they are!!!) so pay us more. The government brings in a few more teachers so they can say look at these extra teachers we have recruited and look at the buildings we have helped to improve. A few chosen sound bites about exam results and grandstanding about amazing they are.

But parents who would have otherwise sent their children private at 5 or 11 or 13 start to go, ‘i could sort of get my head around £20k but now we are looking at £25k’, eeeek. Let’s use the money to move close to an amazing school (thus putting up house prices around the best schools) and then spend the remaining on tutoring our kids.

the etons, winchesters, harrows will take the super rich and foreign kids so they won’t even notice the increase. The middle pack of schools (e.g. Times top 50 schools) will still get filled as there are enough wealthy enough parents who can and will pay. It is the smaller private and prep schools where parents start to not see the value add that will suffer as they don’t get filled.

councils will suddenly find themselves with bulge classes. No way enough places to go around. There will be appeals bogging down the system. Some new places will be created but kids will end up having to travel miles and miles to get to school. Council will have to pay for the transport. Local/central government will have to start funding the setting up of new schools which is expensive.

meanwhile other professions such as doctors, nurses etc demand better pay like the teachers are demanding. (Which I agree they deserve!!!). This eats away at those ever decreasing VAT receipts as the smaller private schools shut and pupil numbers diminish. The state also starts to pick up the tab for the extra pupils they previously were not paying for. Government starts getting bogged down with competing interests for treasury money - eg they want to put more money In The NHS - well we have a handy extra pile of cash here. People complain about the missing investment (remember £350m battle bus claim that never materialised?!) but the government just blame the Tories.

the wealthier state school kids get loads of extra tutoring (as many already do!) and they begin to outstrip their less privileged school mates and therefore have a greater chance of taking those prized top uni places. They also get nice lump sums from parents to put deposits on property.

Wealth inequality gets larger in the long term. you won’t see the effects with the first years but you will after 5-10 years.

genuinely happy to hear the counter argument.

BlueSoul · Today 09:55

What an unpleasant thread.

Yes.
OP must be extremely annoying for you that Keir Starmer has rowed back on his promise to remove charitable status. Since he’s a barrister you’d have thought he’d have worked out earlier that it wasn’t feasible.
Someone on another thread said it’s because it would take too long - not sure why that should stop Labour.

@Drfosters the most well balanced and reasoned thinking yet. Completely agree that the ultimate result long teem will be wealth and access inequality

Why is buying extra privilege even means? That is BS made up in this country to shame people who want to do better and prioritise their kids future if they can. If you are so worry about children starving in mould infested flats take it to the government to tax billionaires and oligarchs. Everyone else have been taxed too much already and nothing have changed. No one is blackmailing it is just that there is not more room for more taxes and huge bills so there is not point living here anymore. Also, people are responding to the person who started this nasty thread mocking the people who would pay extra tax.

@Barbadossunset "OP must be extremely annoying for you that Keir Starmer has rowed back on his promise to remove charitable status."

Frankly, yes from a political and philosophical point of view. I find the idea of private schools having charitable status repugnant. But imposing VAT is a quicker and legislatively easier way to achieve practically the same result. So I can accept the pragmatic approach.

I don't think you understand the premise of the thread. It is applying the same arguments to rich people moaning about an increase in their luxury tax that they apply to genuinely poor people in desperate need.

Could you tell me the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow please? Ta.

Spot on. And once the middle class children applying to universities are coming from state schools rather than private, they will have even more of a chance of getting the top places as (from the university perspective), the backgrounds are equal.

Add to this the cost of administering the scheme where some education is VAT exempt but other parts is not will mean the richest find ways around it and don't end up contributing a fraction of what was anticipated.

In 10 years time, this is going to be a cost to the government rather than any form of income

Gosh, I'm gutted that these second-home-owning monoglot Tories who are happy to live in places where homosexuality is a crime punishable by death are going to leave the UK. They enrich our cultural life so much. See ya.

It’s a half way measure from Labour which is a vote generator for Conservatives. Because some abstract gains from VAT is not something a Labour voter strongly backs up but a 20% rise in a school fee is something that 7% private parents will feel very strongly towards.
A real game changer would be to abandon rank tables, ofstead reports and nationalize private schools. This would create a more equal society. Very much poorer and less developed but more equal.

Let's hope none of their children turn out to be gay, eh.

• UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
• Types of criminalisation
• Criminalises LGBT people
• Criminalises sexual activity between males
• Criminalises sexual activity between females
• Criminalises the gender expression of trans people
• Imposes the death penalty

Or that they don't mind their husbands raping them.

Emirati women live under male guardianship.[11] Whereas men can marry multiple women and unilaterally divorce, women are required to obtain a court order to divorce their husband.[11] Honor killings can go unpunished, as the victim's family can pardon the murderer.[11] Marital rape is not criminalized in the UAE.[11] The UAE is a major destination for sex trafficking.[12]

I think the country will miss them a lot less than all the EU dentists/nurses/factory workers etc that they voted to get rid of.